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What type is Spock - INTP, ISTJ, INTJ, ISTP?

What type is Spock - INTP, ISTJ, INTJ, ISTP?


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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Whoops meant Spock was INTP in TOS not INTJ. My b.

Yes.... he rejects things that are "highly illogical". That's an instant catch phrase for Introverted Thinking. And he has intense emotions underneath.

Data from TNG might be an INTJ, though. Less hostile to Feeling, so I can see it being a tertiary and not an inferior.
 

violet_crown

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Yes.... he rejects things that are "highly illogical". That's an instant catch phrase for Introverted Thinking. And he has intense emotions underneath.

Data from TNG might be an INTJ, though. Less hostile to Feeling, so I can see it being a Tertiary and not an Inferior.

I can dig it. Had no interest post TOS. Im thinking of getting into Battlestar.
 

RaptorWizard

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I'd type him as an INTx 5w6. I think the J or the P comes from how he wants others to view him, and you could argue in circles about why he is one or the other. We'd have to see some more characterization coming straight from Spock before I'd be able to decide. But I do feel that he is an NT, and of course an introvert.

This is my opinion as well. I think people are just saying ISTJ because he's very structured. He does in his old age from the movie I saw from 2009 seem a lot like Yoda, being all wise and solitary, detached and contemplative. Perhaps if we knew Yoda's type, we would also know Spock's type.

What Type is Yoda?
 

violet_crown

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This is my opinion as well. I think people are just saying ISTJ because he's very structured. He does in his old age from the movie I saw from 2009 seem a lot like Yoda, being all wise and solitary, detached and contemplative. Perhaps if we knew Yoda's type, we would also know Spock's type.

What Type is Yoda?

Do you think ISTJs lack the capacity for irreverence?
 

RaptorWizard

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Do you think ISTJs lack the capacity for irreverence?

Well, he seemed to go by logical measures and objective consequences more so than by precedents, sometimes even against the wishes of other people's orders.

Perhaps ISTPs can do the logical measures, and ISTJs the objective consequences, but Spock seemed to do both, whereas the IST it seems like does things more mainstream.

I have no freaking conclusion on this though. I'm completely open to arguments for any IxTx type.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I like ISTJs a great deal, but I'm not convinced this Spock is one. INTPs have Si, too. And some of us tend to embrace it, in addition to (or sometimes in place of) embracing intuition. :)

People have called me "by the book" too. I swear.
 

Coriolis

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Yes.... he rejects things that are "highly illogical". That's an instant catch phrase for Introverted Thinking. And he has intense emotions underneath.

Data from TNG might be an INTJ, though. Less hostile to Feeling, so I can see it being a tertiary and not an inferior.
I would switch these, with Data INTP and Spock INTJ, or perhaps ISTJ depending on the specific depiction. I have not seen the most recent movies, though, so my comments are based on TOS and the first 5 films for Spock. Data is probably less hostile to feeling because he doesn't experience it as Spock does.

Do you think ISTJs lack the capacity for irreverence?
Spock is much more irreverent in actions than words. He can cite reguations by chapter and verse, but will go against them when necessary to reach an objective. For (stereo)typical SJs, following the rules is almost an objective in and of itself.
 

violet_crown

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Spock is much more irreverent in actions than words. He can cite reguations by chapter and verse, but will go against them when necessary to reach an objective. For (stereo)typical SJs, following the rules is almost an objective in and of itself.

Yeah. Abrams!Spock is a lot more rule-bound than he was in the TOS version, which plays interestingly. The second movie, for instance, has him demanding that Kirk et al leave him to die in an erupting volcano as beaming him out would violate the prime directive. Afterwards, Kirk ends up losing his position of captain of the Enterprise because where Kirk kinda glosses over the incident in his captain's log, Spock pretty much lays things out line and letter in a manner true to SJ form.

What's interesting is that through some plot twists, an older TOS!Spock inhabits the same universe as Abrams!Spock, and so you can see the distinction between the two. What's implied is that as Spock embraces his humanity with age, he takes on a more heuristic approach to law and logic that I think typifies the INT approach to such things.
 
R

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I always thought that he was an INTJ, but I could buy ISTJ and I can't buy INTP. Ti users tend to have their own personal brand of logic. By contrast, the logic that Spock tends to go with seems to be more of a universal logical system which is more congruent with Te.
+1 Whatever spock's type is he is definitely a Te user. He adamantly stays away from mentioning something even vaguely Ti ish. However due to his vast knowledge (Si) on almost anything he manages to win any counter arguments/options/decisions; with the exception of the doctor who transcends any point by dragging humanity into the arguments. I can vaguely remember a couple of instances where he dismissed Ti based logical interpretations by simply claiming them only to be assumptions. So I say he is clearly Te with a shit ton of knowledge. Regarding Ni vs Si; a method to identify Ni user is the sudden 'realization' of conclusions and ideas; based on Se observations. So usually NTJ conclusions are inductive as opposed to Si conclusions which are deductive. And their ideas are - to a certain extent adamant - realizations (Se sees and Ni filters based on what is needed) than options (Ne or Si). The exception to its realization of ni ideas is when Te quickly optionalizes the idea (not ideas) into segments. I believe spock clearly exhibits the latter when it comes to both conclusions and realizations.
 

RaptorWizard

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Yeah. Abrams!Spock is a lot more rule-bound than he was in the TOS version, which plays interestingly. The second movie, for instance, has him demanding that Kirk et al leave him to die in an erupting volcano as beaming him out would violate the prime directive. Afterwards, Kirk ends up losing his position of captain of the Enterprise because where Kirk kinda glosses over the incident in his captain's log, Spock pretty much lays things out line and letter in a manner true to SJ form.

I'm wondering if presenting outlines for processes is really that much related to rules, because after all, Spock just criticized what Kirk did in relation to what the supposed best course of action was, whereas the boss in the office (whoever that was) at the beginning of the movie was getting all angry and had strong impulses to punish Kirk by the letter of the law. To me, that actually seems more SJ.

What's interesting is that through some plot twists, an older TOS!Spock inhabits the same universe as Abrams!Spock, and so you can see the distinction between the two. What's implied is that as Spock embraces his humanity with age, he takes on a more heuristic approach to law and logic that I think typifies the INT approach to such things.

This is exactly why I compared him to Yoda.
 

violet_crown

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I'm wondering if presenting outlines for processes is really that much related to rules, because after all, Spock just criticized what Kirk did in relation to what the supposed best course of action was, whereas the boss in the office (whoever that was) at the beginning of the movie was getting all angry and had strong impulses to punish Kirk by the letter of the law. To me, that actually seems more SJ.

That nuance may have eluded me. What I recall is Spock being annoyed because a rule had been broken, and simply relating the details mission factually and as they happened with full knowledge that Kirk would catch hell for it. I mean, that seems pretty rule-bound to me. If that was the case, I don't see much difference between his reaction and that of Admiral Pike.

But to dig into the bolded a bit further, Si's past-orientation doesn't preclude either a sense of efficiency, goal-orientation, or an ability to reason through consequences. The first two are more within the domain of Te, and the last one in and of itself says less about type than the manner in which it's actually done, if that makes sense.
 
S

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Haha. I didn't say it can't or won't be done. Just that it can only mean so much. Spock is a black sheep to others on his planet. He broke out and did something not seen as "normal." So, seems to me, for that reason and others that contribute to his black sheep status, he's a giant extrovert if seen from the perspective of this his own species' standards.
this exactly^


while spock might seem SJish by human terms, in Vulcan terms he's practically a rebel without cause, a man living on the edge, choosing to live a risky & dangerous lifestyle among wild, uncivilized animals (a.k.a. humans), and worst of all - he even takes 'em seriously, like actually considering what they say as possible valid points. he's full of the crazies!

and why not a feeler? in the land of the heartless maximum utility paradigm, the man who will shed a tear openly admit to having a negative association for the loss of his loved ones entire civilization is clearly a bleeding-heart wuss.

where's the INFP vote?
 
A

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The more important issue is how do we clone the actor playing Khan and can we program him with the personality type of our choice? That man's VOICE could bring empires to their knees were they comprised entirely of female Americans.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I would switch these, with Data INTP and Spock INTJ, or perhaps ISTJ depending on the specific depiction. I have not seen the most recent movies, though, so my comments are based on TOS and the first 5 films for Spock. Data is probably less hostile to feeling because he doesn't experience it as Spock does.

My primary argument has more to do with the relationship to Feeling. Is Pon Farr more like feeling in an INTP, or an INTJ? Which of these types is more comfortable with Feeling, and which character is more comfortable with Feeling?

Do INTJs ever explode like INTPs do? It doesn't look that way.
 

The Great One

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+1 Whatever spock's type is he is definitely a Te user. He adamantly stays away from mentioning something even vaguely Ti ish. However due to his vast knowledge (Si) on almost anything he manages to win any counter arguments/options/decisions; with the exception of the doctor who transcends any point by dragging humanity into the arguments. I can vaguely remember a couple of instances where he dismissed Ti based logical interpretations by simply claiming them only to be assumptions. So I say he is clearly Te with a shit ton of knowledge. Regarding Ni vs Si; a method to identify Ni user is the sudden 'realization' of conclusions and ideas; based on Se observations. So usually NTJ conclusions are inductive as opposed to Si conclusions which are deductive. And their ideas are - to a certain extent adamant - realizations (Se sees and Ni filters based on what is needed) than options (Ne or Si). The exception to its realization of ni ideas is when Te quickly optionalizes the idea (not ideas) into segments. I believe spock clearly exhibits the latter when it comes to both conclusions and realizations.

So you agree that he's ISTJ as well?
 

Coriolis

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My primary argument has more to do with the relationship to Feeling. Is Pon Farr more like feeling in an INTP, or an INTJ? Which of these types is more comfortable with Feeling, and which character is more comfortable with Feeling?

Do INTJs ever explode like INTPs do? It doesn't look that way.
Yes, but (hopefully) not often. I would not use Pon Farr to judge the character's perspective on emotion. It seems like a rather extreme and largely physiological phenomenon that all male Vulcans would experience, much like the adrenaline rush of the "fight or flight" scenario, though stronger. Spock's reaction to the fact that he is experiencing that customary Vulcan event seems much more Fi. He sees it as a loss of control, causing him to betray himself and his values. I suspect the Fe-based response would focus more on trying to mitigate its impact on others, or even what others would think of the affected person.

I think in general INTJs wrestle with feeling, emotion, and values more because the related function is internally directed and tert rather than inf. Most of this usually seems to be under the radar for INTPs, until, as you mention, it all surfaces and they explode. Their values (priorities, right/wrong) seem to come more from the Ti/Si combination, culling past experiences for what makes logical sense, which often entails reassembling existing components in new and unique ways (Ne). Not sure how Fe plays out in this. Often it seems like an afterthought: the INTP remembers, "oh, yes - I should ask the group whether they agree with this".

while spock might seem SJish by human terms, in Vulcan terms he's practically a rebel without cause, a man living on the edge, choosing to live a risky & dangerous lifestyle among wild, uncivilized animals (a.k.a. humans), and worst of all - he even takes 'em seriously, like actually considering what they say as possible valid points. he's full of the crazies!

and why not a feeler? in the land of the heartless maximum utility paradigm, the man who will shed a tear openly admit to having a negative association for the loss of his loved ones entire civilization is clearly a bleeding-heart wuss.
It is the sort of choices your first paragraph describes that illustrate what I called the irreverence in Spock's actions. He doesn't do what is expected of him, and never has. As for your second point, I think tert Fi is more than sufficient for such a reaction. (Would MBTI apply to Vulcans without human ancestry??)
 

violet_crown

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Yes, but (hopefully) not often. I would not use Pon Farr to judge the character's

In the language of my people, Pon Farr means marriage or challenge.
 

Coriolis

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In the language of my people, Pon Farr means marriage or challenge.
"We shield it with ritual and customs shrouded in antiquity. You humans have no conception. It strips our minds from us. It brings a madness which rips away our veneer of civilisation. It is the pon farr. The time of mating. There are precedents in nature, Captain. The giant eelbirds of Regulus Five, once each eleven years they must return to the caverns where they hatched. On your Earth, the salmon. They must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn or die in trying."
 
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