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Mistyping Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter

nightwatcher

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ISFPs Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter are sometimes mistyped as INFPs, possibly in part because it’s assumed that a character with magical powers or strong in the Force must be an N. But the S/N difference isn’t about one possessing supernatural powers the other lacks. It’s about viewpoint and what kind of information is the main focus: the pieces or the whole, the present or the future, reality or imagination, theory or fact, etc. In Luke’s own words (as I recall from one of the New Jedi Order novels), he was never much good at seeing the big picture. There are likewise numerous examples which show Harry Potter being more S than N.

Also compare each to their main adversaries. The Emperor and Voldemort are both INTJ visionary masterminds, big picture/future planners, while Luke and Harry are SP responders. For that matter, so is the Emperor’s right hand enforcer: ISTP Darth Vader, who is sometimes mistyped as an ENTJ (perhaps you could make a case that he became more ENTJ when he became Vader, but Anakin Skywalker was likely an ISTP and Vader is nothing like the long range future planner/Empire builder that his master was).
 

Jgib5328

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Way for you to mistype. Darth Vader is an ISTJ, he is organized, focused, planned, he isn't a P. His S limits him from the long range planning that he has. Anakin Skywalker is an ENFP. I don't know where you got ISTP. Look at how he interacts with people, just watch him and Padme in the second episode. He clearly is N from how he imagines possibilities and is really rebellious against authority. He is clearly an emotional person, look at episode 2 again when he kills the tribe because they killed his mother and how he expressed it after. He is P because he doesn't think well into the future and is more reactive to situations rather than planned.

Luke may be an ISFP, Harry definitely is.
 

proteanmix

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I'm not Harry Potter or Star Wars fan but I do think it's mighty strange that whenever I look at these typing threads the bulk of the characters are Intuitives. To me it's statistically impossible to have so many N characters while the majority of the population is Sensate.

It's just another testament to N-superiority in my mind. People can't distinguish between S and N unless they're heavily one or the other. *shrug*
 

Mondo

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To me it's statistically impossible to have so many N characters while the majority of the population is Sensate.

Not when the creators of these works of fiction are N types themselves.
 

Totenkindly

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Way for you to mistype. Darth Vader is an ISTJ, he is organized, focused, planned, he isn't a P. His S limits him from the long range planning that he has.

Nice, yes, as portrayed in Star Wars 1,2,3 he very much is this.

Anakin Skywalker is an ENFP. I don't know where you got ISTP. Look at how he interacts with people, just watch him and Padme in the second episode. He clearly is N from how he imagines possibilities and is really rebellious against authority. He is clearly an emotional person, look at episode 2 again when he kills the tribe because they killed his mother and how he expressed it after. He is P because he doesn't think well into the future and is more reactive to situations rather than planned.

I'm not sure about ENFP per say but you make a good case. The F thing, definitely. That is the one thing that stays consistent from little Anakin to teen Anakin.

i think one of the weaknesses of Lucas' movies (for me as a viewer, some people view the movies for different reasons) is that the character arcs are not coherent. The shift from, well, SOMETHING as Anakin to an ISTJ Darth Vader is not coherent. The characters are subservient to the plot, rather than the plot being generated from the characters.

One could make a case for Luke being ISFP. He's definitely IxFP, though. And no, the N guess many make isn't necessarily because he can use the Force... there are other reasons. (Much of the third movie, he's speak in grand N-style language, NOT like an S would. But again, this is more Lucas speaking through Luke... hmm, name similarity? :) Lucas doesn't care about keeping complex personalities consistent, he at best works with "roles" -- the knight, the cowboy, the evil villain, etc -- and the personalities take second seat.)

Not when the creators of these works of fiction are N types themselves.

Um... yes. It's not the real world, so normal demographics are not applicable. And writers tend to write deeply in ways they understand, themselves. Lucas seems pretty FP... sometimes I think N (because of focusing on the mythical journey, which appeals to him greatly), but his creativity never seems to "mesh" consistently, it's more like a pastiche of visual experiences especially as he aged... very typical for SFP, which can be mistaken for N on the surface. It's hard to tell what part of that shift was him and what part was the zillions of SP graphic/visual artists working for him.
 

Geoff

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Nice, yes, as portrayed in Star Wars 1,2,3 he very much is this.



I'm not sure about ENFP per say but you make a good case. The F thing, definitely. That is the one thing that stays consistent from little Anakin to teen Anakin.

i think one of the weaknesses of Lucas' movies (for me as a viewer, some people view the movies for different reasons) is that the character arcs are not coherent. The shift from, well, SOMETHING as Anakin to an ISTJ Darth Vader is not coherent. The characters are subservient to the plot, rather than the plot being generated from the characters.

One could make a case for Luke being ISFP. He's definitely IxFP, though. And no, the N guess many make isn't necessarily because he can use the Force... there are other reasons. (Much of the third movie, he's speak in grand N-style language, NOT like an S would. But again, this is more Lucas speaking through Luke... hmm, name similarity? :) Lucas doesn't care about keeping complex personalities consistent, he at best works with "roles" -- the knight, the cowboy, the evil villain, etc -- and the personalities take second seat.)



Um... yes. It's not the real world, so normal demographics are not applicable. And writers tend to write deeply in ways they understand, themselves. Lucas seems pretty FP... sometimes I think N (because of focusing on the mythical journey, which appeals to him greatly), but his creativity never seems to "mesh" consistently, it's more like a pastiche of visual experiences especially as he aged... very typical for SFP, which can be mistaken for N on the surface. It's hard to tell what part of that shift was him and what part was the zillions of SP graphic/visual artists working for him.

I suppose the shift works if Anakin is ENFP.. because he is overwhelmed by his shadow, which is ISTJ. So he becomes this withdrawn unhealthy obsessive.
 

Nadir

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It's just another testament to N-superiority in my mind. People can't distinguish between S and N unless they're heavily one or the other. *shrug*

It's self serving bias -- the same reason you might have seen posts here or in other forums where Intiuitive-typed members are "suggested" by other Intuitives to be Sensors... and why you haven't seen, and probably will not be seeing, Sensors suggested to be Intuitive.

There is no superiority in my mind. That particular feeling would stem from something else you would not see discussed here, disguised by forum dymanics and affect of questionable sincerity. And the way MBTI is presented -- it does not help.
 

Domino

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It's true, Protes. Statistically speaking most characters in books/movies are Intuitives (possibly the only way they can exert themselves without awkwardness in real life? lol *eyeroll*) Bleh. Anyhoo, Ns grossly outnumber Ss in most literature, particularly fiction. I think it MUST be writer bias.

But my favorite fiction guy, Heathcliff, his bad bad self is an ISTP. :D WOOT.

FWIW, I took the characters to be like this: (all just my opinion though!)

Han - ENTJ
Leia - ENFP (Carrie Fischer playing her shadow)
Anakin - ISF/TJ
Darth Vader - ISTJ (didn't see any change whatsoever between his "good" and "bad")
Fett - ISTJ
Padme - E/INFP
Obi Wan - INFJ
Qui Gon - ISFJ
Chewbacca - ME
Luke - DORK (like who cares, shrimpy blond whiny guy!?)

Ta da!!!
 

proteanmix

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It's self serving bias -- the same reason you might have seen posts here or in other forums where Intiuitive-typed members are "suggested" by other Intuitives to be Sensors... and why you haven't seen, and probably will not be seeing, Sensors suggested to be Intuitive.

There is no superiority in my mind. That particular feeling would stem from something else you would not see discussed here, disguised by forum dymanics and affect of questionable sincerity. And the way MBTI is presented -- it does not help.

Yes, you're right especially about the bolded part.

Why is it that so many people on the forum see intuitive traits and therefore type the character/person in question instead of considering that they might actually be well-rounded sensors? And why aren't well-rounded intuitives given that same credit?

I was recently reading a book about psychotherapy and type and the author presented a very interesting alternative to how the inferior manifests itself. Referring specifically to IJs and EPs, how ESPs tend to write fiction that they dregde up from the recesses of their psyche which tends to look Ni, while INJs tend to write incredibly Se fiction, etc.

So when people say that most of the characters are Ns because most of the writers or creators are Ns, that doesn't make sense to me. Just because you're dealing with fiction or fantasy doesn't always mean that it's an N that creates it. Seems like a pretty simple thought to wrap your mind around.
 

Mondo

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Another assumption.

Sorry about the way I worded my 'assumption' (I notice it did sound like that I was 100% sure that was the answer), I don't think this is necessarily true but it would be a possible way to explain why some books/movies have a majority of iNtuitive characters in them.
 

Jgib5328

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It's true, Protes. Statistically speaking most characters in books/movies are Intuitives (possibly the only way they can exert themselves without awkwardness in real life? lol *eyeroll*) Bleh. Anyhoo, Ns grossly outnumber Ss in most literature, particularly fiction. I think it MUST be writer bias.

But my favorite fiction guy, Heathcliff, his bad bad self is an ISTP. :D WOOT.

FWIW, I took the characters to be like this: (all just my opinion though!)

Han - ENTJ
Leia - ENFP (Carrie Fischer playing her shadow)
Anakin - ISF/TJ
Darth Vader - ISTJ (didn't see any change whatsoever between his "good" and "bad")
Fett - ISTJ
Padme - E/INFP
Obi Wan - INFJ
Qui Gon - ISFJ
Chewbacca - ME
Luke - DORK (like who cares, shrimpy blond whiny guy!?)

Ta da!!!

How is Anakin an ISFJ or an ISTJ? He is a clear N, look at how he approached life. He constantly questioned tradition and rules, he thought about possibilities, he questioned the current form of the government instead of accepting it. He also has the ENFP trait of not thinking their big ideas through very clearly. In his final face off with Obi, he says that he is going to overthrow the emperor and take over the galaxy.

He is a very chatty person too, so I don't see how you could think he is an I. Look at when he was a kid and how assertive and socially bold he was. Look at the Padme scenes as well.

To the person who believes it's statistically impossible to have this many N's in literature. Like a previous poster said, that is irrelevant because it's a fictional universe. A person can make a world with all Chinese people if they wanted or all gorillas, they can make anything. There are probably more N's, because there are more N writers.

Obviously there is going to be N bias, people always want their favorite characters to be their types. Someone claimed that Tony Soprano was an INTJ, which is ridiculous. So I do see what you are saying, there is an incredible amount of N bias, but that's human nature, what do you expect?
 

heart

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Intuitive leaps are a good plot device, that's probably the biggest reason why so many characters seem N.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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So when people say that most of the characters are Ns because most of the writers or creators are Ns, that doesn't make sense to me. Just because you're dealing with fiction or fantasy doesn't always mean that it's an N that creates it. Seems like a pretty simple thought to wrap your mind around.

To be imaginative and creative is a basic trait for being human - just like using language is a basic trait. How people experience and express these can vary, certainly. You are right to point out that each type possesses both an iNtuitive and Sensing function. The theory doesn't even suggest the binary approach that we often see in these water cooler analysis.

But it is amusing and beyond to have a debate over whether Darth Vader is a Sensor or iNtuitive. Personally, I think he was well rounded.

At least we know yoda iNtuitive he was.
 

nightwatcher

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Possibly some of the following points have been made already in other threads. I don’t know if this is typical, but I have serious problems getting onto and staying on this website, not to mention extremely slow downloads, and thus am not able to read and respond to as many posts as I’d like.

I'm rethinking my typing of Anikan Skywalker and possibly Luke Skywalker, but not Harry Potter. It may be time for a Star Wars marathon.

The problem with typing characters, Star Wars and otherwise, isn’t only that they are sometimes written inconsistantly, it’s that (like real people) they aren't always in their dominant functions and preferences. You can’t say a character isn’t a T, for instance, because he’s had emotional reactions in various dramatic or love scenes. Anakin Skywalker may be an F, but his highly emotional and vengeful response to his mother’s death doesn’t in itself make him more F than T. Most T’s aren’t Vulcans; they have a feeling side that’s going to emerge in the kind of highlight scenes of their lives that make up a film or novel. Likewise, an S character in Luke’s situation, where the fate of a galaxy is at stake, is going to have moments of displaying big picture awareness. We all have to use our weaker functions at times and most people have have interests which fall outside the realm of their main functions.

The aim of MB typing is to determine the dominant set of functions and the temperament by figuring out the “typee”’s 4 preferences. The inherent flaw is that for the sake of simplicity people are placed into 16 slots that don’t take into account the variations of preference degree in each type for each letter. For example, there’s going to be a notable difference between an INTP who's 60% T/40% F, 5 with a 4 wing on the Enneagram, and an INTP whose 80%T and a 5 with a 6 wing on the Enneagram. The former is going to sometimes appear as an INFP, and thus sometimes be mistyped as such, especially if you make a film about that person’s life showing the most emotionally charged moments and crisis events.
 

Haphazard

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Intuitive leaps are a good plot device, that's probably the biggest reason why so many characters seem N.

Agreed.

I think Luke Skywalker is usually typed INFP because of the good/evil struggle he's trapped in, which is identified as INFP-ish, and the typing is done without regards to the character himself. So, the character may be ISFP, but the situation is INFP.

If... that makes any sense.
 

RunnDMC

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"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless."

...Yoda seems to think Luke is an N.
 

heart

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"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless."

...Yoda seems to think Luke is an N.

Don't ISFP crave excitement and adventure? Can't they be at times reckless?

I thought the difference between N and S was the senses vs. abstract thing, not so much adventure, excitement or lack of caution. Different people have a different idea of excitement and adventure really mean.
 

arcticangel02

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Heart, I think the thing Runn was referring to as Yoda indicating that Luke was an N was this line here:

"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless."

Although I tend to agree that intuitive leaps are good plot devices, so characters who may otherwise be clearly Ss are suddenly looking like Ns.
 
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