Prophet Muhammad

[Mole]

Well, if you ask anyone who studied islam they will prove to you the validity of the Quran. That it never changed since like 1430+ years ago , since it first came. Literal truth you say? I think you might have missed out on something. It does contain literal truth that is written clearly, but also in some places in Quran (like specific worship details and rules) it's written in a way that can be interpreted in many ways. But within the limits and rules of the language and events related with prophet mohammad's sayings (valid ones only that are proved to be original). Basically their is no islamic rule/govermnet to send people to death. And such thing can ONLY be done by the judge and not random people. So don't worry about being killed unless you live in a terrible place were no rules apply. And no one has the right to acuse you with that unless you say it yourself and after so many chances of retuning to god. And in general it doesn't apply unless the person insisted on attaking and making war. In islam they say :don't rush in accusing anyone with apostating! (Did this explain any concern you have?)

The 57 Islamic countries of Thr Orgaisatipn of Islamic.Co-operation (OIC) has publicly and openly rejected The Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia.

 

[AStrange~Nostalgia]

You seem to confuse proof with "making an arbitrary claim".

A validity of Quran can be assessed by analysing 4.11 an 4.12, and applying them to the simple problem of inheritance of a man with three daughters, both parents and X wives surviving him. The daughters get 2/3, parents 1/3 and wives 1/8, which adds up to 9/8 or 112.5%. Maybe anyone who studied Islam can find creative ways to fudge this in his mind, but I would like to see the actual mathematical proof of the above division.

Possibly, you confuse validity with authenticity. But here there are problems as well. 1430+ years ago was before year 588 C.E. Even most Muslim scholars do not claim that Quran appeared before it was first recited by angel Gabriel in 610 C.E. But maybe we should just chalk it up to your Islamic mathematics. More seriously though, the current Quran was written by a committee two decades after Mohammed's death and all the differing versions were promptly ordered to be destroyed. There are however different versions found, e.g. Sana'a manuscript. So your claim is simply false.




There are several governments in Islamic countries (Saudi Arabia being just one of them) that send people to death for apostasy. There are several countries where the majority of Muslims supports such penalty. Haven't they studied Quran? Note that the judges are usually appointed by the government (or sometimes some religious bodies) and are supposed to uphold the Islamic rules. So "such thing can ONLY be done by the judge" - but wait, haven't you just said in the previous sentence that there are no such rules? And what about the recent mob killings of apostates in Bangladesh? Weren't they killed by random Muslims? To be honest, I rarely see two sentences so ridden with falsehoods and errors.

You misinterlreted every word I said in a wrong way.

I was in hurry maybe the years were wrong. No Quran wasn't in earth before the angle recited it. And I never heard of that other version.

I meant their isn't a legal islamic country. Just those so-called islamic countries.
I said this in another reoly, not cituzens but government only that can do the punishments. And no country does these days. I phrased the sentence in such an awful way , their are no country not not rule (I meant it as ruling a country).

Sorry for the misunderstanding. And I see you know good deal of info.


So no I'm not being stupidly trying to prove something, just a fault in using a better synanomes.

 

[AStrange~Nostalgia]

The 57 Islamic countries of Thr Orgaisatipn of Islamic.Co-operation (OIC) has publicly and openly rejected The Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia.

Human rights are too wide of a subject to be discussed. But in short human rights has a few things that are too much, that is not basic. Thats what i know .But islamic countries do not ably Sharia fully. And the extremes are usually ablied randomly by citizens.

I might be wrong, but I always hear a few nonsense considered human rights. Whether it's truly registered or not I don't know.
I need to search for the reasons they refused first. That's all I have.

 

[Mole]

The closest.we have ever come to absolute evil was in the holocaust of Jewry.

iIn reaction to this evil we drew up and ratified The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Anti-semitism, the hatred of Jews, is held world wide by Islam and has led 57 Islamic countries to.reject human rights in favour of Sharia.

This is the embrace of evil.

 

[AStrange~Nostalgia]

if the 'it's culture not religion' view was correct then how come that the places with the most stonings, killings of gays etc are also the oldest muslim countries ? The opposite trend should be true if that was the case.

That's is called illitrate people who follow religion blindly.
You just said an obvious rule. From the origin comes the extremes. You don't expect a non islamic country to do so.

Let aside the nonsense, I'll tell you the reason. it also a thing you'll see all your life. You propably have seen people before reaching success or fame, and after some time they turn into no one but still famous. They are still feeding from their fame/past, and forgetting to work.

That's how it is in sudi arabia. People their kept convincing themselves that they live in the origin of islam and therefore they are the most relegious. Focussing on the fame, its people began to think of other things than relegion. Like finance and names and glory. They have the most wealthy people and the worst povery around the world just a few blocks afar. They have these extremes in every aspect in their lives, some of them are the most knowledgeable in relegion, and others inventing relegion and misusing their powers for grace.

With that, they forgot their role in establishing an Islamic country.

When their is no one to ably roles and give you your right, you will try and do it yourself. Thats why citizens do the killing for what ever purposes. Even for purposes of personal desire, of hate for example.

Did this clear the idea?

Edit: what do you mean by opposite trend? If you mean that good muslims should be against these actions, then I'll tell you that it is happening but you can't see it. It's happening within muslims themselves educating them how wrong is this and that is not how you ably islam. You ably it with ur worship and developing your environment. And leave the government's role for the ones responsible.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Muhammad fondled little girls

 

[Coriolis]

if the 'it's culture not religion' view was correct then how come that the places with the most stonings, killings of gays etc are also the oldest muslim countries ? The opposite trend should be true if that was the case.

Why? If we are going to assume cultures become more progressive with time - an assumption that may not be supportable - then tying culture to the religion earlier would set more oppressive/regressive customs "in stone". In any case, Islam began in ~600 CE. The cultural traditions we associate with Muslim nations predate that era by generations, probably centuries.

I'm sorry if this was long though. But Islam in not all about punishments, it has a beauty within that haters can't see.
Just imagine living in such a country where no one steals, kills or misuse their peower...etc

Well, that will never happen because of human nature. The country with the least crime, however, will be the one that focuses on true rehabilitation and meeting the needs of all its people, not the one that is the quickest to impose harsh penalties. The US does too much of that, and we have one of the largest per capita incarcerated populations in the world.

I agree that Islam has a beauty that "haters can't see". As our former Pres. G.W. Bush said, it is a religion of peace. Too many Muslim individuals and nations, however, continue to behave in ways that undercut this truth, with their fellow Muslims suffering the most as a result, even considering international terrorism. In order to progress, Muslims need to discard those cultural trappings are that are incompatible with the true spirit of Islam, and embrace a figurative interpretation of the Quran, as progressive Christians do with the Bible.

 

[René]

Wow that escalated quickly. I'll go back to typing Muhammad. What makes it hard to do is the fact, that there's nothing known about Muhammad in non-Islamic sources, even though Islam was a big deal already when he was documented to live. In fact the only non-Islamic source writes about him long after his supposed death, which indicates that either the Islamic sources are wrong about the time of death, or Muhammad never existed and is a purely fictional character.
So the only source to type are Islamic sources. In these there has been a strong a developement showing, regarding his cognitive functions. So if we take a historical-critical aproach on the Quran, I would define "Muhammad" as the person responsible for originally preaching the Quran. I would type him as an unhealthy ENFP and here's why: It's clear that the early Muhammad gathered lots of information about everything ranging from syrian christianity (as shown in the misunderstanding of the christian trinity as father, mother and son, since syrian christians have been usually Marie cults), to greek philosophy. He used those sources to build his own moral understanding of monotheism. Early Muhammad was pretty idealistic and seeked to reform the society he perceived as godless and immoral. Early Muhammad had good relationship to the Christians, who cared about Muslim refugees in Medina. But then everything changes: The Christians and the Jews tell him it's cool he believes in their god, but he's not a prophet. Not able to stand the facts of the other monotheists he goes Si-Demon mode wanting to prove everyone he's the real prophet, sanctioning the most radical laws of all, being more conservative than the old testament and ordering to kill everybody who doesn't believe in him, showing the traits of a stressed ISTJ, becoming a ruthless warlord.

So yeah, for me it's most plausible that Muhammad was an unhealthy ENFP.

 

[Mole]

That's is called illitrate people who follow religion blindly.
You just said an obvious rule. From the origin comes the extremes. You don't expect a non islamic country to do so.

Let aside the nonsense, I'll tell you the reason. it also a thing you'll see all your life. You propably have seen people before reaching success or fame, and after some time they turn into no one but still famous. They are still feeding from their fame/past, and forgetting to work.

That's how it is in sudi arabia. People their kept convincing themselves that they live in the origin of islam and therefore they are the most relegious. Focussing on the fame, its people began to think of other things than relegion. Like finance and names and glory. They have the most wealthy people and the worst povery around the world just a few blocks afar. They have these extremes in every aspect in their lives, some of them are the most knowledgeable in relegion, and others inventing relegion and misusing their powers for grace.

With that, they forgot their role in establishing an Islamic country.

When their is no one to ably roles and give you your right, you will try and do it yourself. Thats why citizens do the killing for what ever purposes. Even for purposes of personal desire, of hate for example.

Did this clear the idea?

Edit: what do you mean by opposite trend? If you mean that good muslims should be against these actions, then I'll tell you that it is happening but you can't see it. It's happening within muslims themselves educating them how wrong is this and that is not how you ably islam. You ably it with ur worship and developing your environment. And leave the government's role for the ones responsible.

Why not stop propagandising educated people and read the book,"Infidel", by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and come back and tell us about it.

 

[Yuurei]

if the 'it's culture not religion' view was correct then how come that the places with the most stonings, killings of gays etc are also the oldest muslim countries ? The opposite trend should be true if that was the case.

Religion and culture can't be separated. Nor can region.

Mideastern religion and culture has not progressed with the rest of the world not due to not just one, but a combination of the three. That's why it is such a monumental problem.

 

[Beorn]

Mideastern religion and culture has not progressed with the rest of the world not due to one of the reason, but a combination of the three. That's why it is such a monumental problem.

You say this and yet throughout the middle-east three distinct and diametrically opposed religions have survived for 2000 years and are most harmed now by western intervention.
Meanwhile, America just barely decided to give the right to distinctly different cultures to raise their children as they wish and it may not last.
In European countries like Germany there is government mandated education that essentially requires cultural indoctrination of children.

The world hasn't progressed to accept a diversity of distinct cultures.
The world has been overcome by a singular over-arching culture.

 

[Mole]

You say this and yet throughout the middle-east three distinct and diametrically opposed religions have survived for 2000 years and are most harmed now by western intervention.
Meanwhile, America just barely decided to give the right to distinctly different cultures to raise their children as they wish and it may not last.
In European countries like Germany there is government mandated education that essentially requires cultural indoctrination of children.

The world hasn't progressed to accept a diversity of distinct cultures.
The world has been overcome by a singular over-arching culture.

As you read this, we are making the culture based on the phonetic alphabet the content of our new electronic culture.

Look in front of us now: we can see the actual phonetic alphabet a to z, is now the content of the electronic media.

The phonetic alphabet gave us the literate individual and the Western Enlightenment, while the electronic media gives us the electronic tribe.

And tribal man and literate man have entirely different ways of perceiving the world, and have different values.

Traditional tribes became the content of literacy, for instance in Anthropology, and now literacy is becoming the content of the electronic media.

Just look around you and see how powerful electronic media has become because everyone, and I mean everyone, is glued to their mobile phone.

Who will save us?

Fortunately literacy is the antidote to both traditional and electronic tribalism.

 

[Yuurei]

As you read this, we are making the culture based on the phonetic alphabet the content of our new electronic culture.

Look in front of us now: we can see the actual phonetic alphabet a to z, is now the content of the electronic media.

The phonetic alphabet gave us the literate individual and the Western Enlightenment, while the electronic media gives us the electronic tribe.

And tribal man and literate man have entirely different ways of perceiving the world, and have different values.

Traditional tribes became the content of literacy, for instance in Anthropology, and now literacy is becoming the content of the electronic media.

Just look around you and see how powerful electronic media has become because everyone, and I mean everyone, is glued to their mobile phone.

Who will save us?

Fortunately literacy is the antidote to both traditional and electronic tribalism.

Everyone but you right? People agree with you, people can understand your perspective but you're so Goddamned obsessed with being "unique" that you are the ONLY one that you flat out tell other people what they feel, believe and do to keep up your delusions of isolation.
I know; you don't care. You LIKE being alone -so you can bitch about it- a self perpetuating superiority machine. Man, you must really have it all.

 

[GirlSmartStreet]

I think he's an INFJ. I can be wrong tho, but I put a lot of thought on this

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I think he's an INFJ. I can be wrong tho, but I put a lot of thought on this

Wouldn't be surprised.

That type encompasses the best and worst of humanity.

 

[Yuurei]

Wouldn't be surprised.

That type encompasses the best and worst of humanity.

I guess that is what you would call a balance.

 

[Mole]

Everyone but you right? People agree with you, people can understand your perspective but you're so Goddamned obsessed with being "unique" that you are the ONLY one that you flat out tell other people what they feel, believe and do to keep up your delusions of isolation. I know; you don't care. You LIKE being alone -so you can bitch about it- a self perpetuating superiority machine. Man, you must really have it all.

Instead of attacking me personally why not address the issues.

 

[AStrange~Nostalgia]

The closest.we have ever come to absolute evil was in the holocaust of Jewry.

iIn reaction to this evil we drew up and ratified The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Anti-semitism, the hatred of Jews, is held world wide by Islam and has led 57 Islamic countries to.reject human rights in favour of Sharia.

This is the embrace of evil.

I have no idea what your talking about. and holocaust was held by the Germans. Sharia doesn`t tell you to hate Jews, it says be ware of them. yet still have no idea what you are talking about. if you would provide a number of the right or sth.

but don't mix Israeli occupation of Palestine, that's propably the case, because it is about Christianity and Islam being attacked by Jews in Palestine. its one of the reasons of which I know. This hate is for humanity and holy religion`s sake, not racism!!


PS: Anti-semitism actually means hatred of Jew AND Muslims. historically speaking were are both sons of Sam. so we are practically cousins!

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I have no idea what your talking about. and holocaust was held by the Germans. Sharia doesn`t tell you to hate Jews, it says be ware of them. yet still have no idea what you are talking about. if you would provide a number of the right or sth.

but don't mix Israeli occupation of Palestine, that's propably the case, because it is about Christianity and Islam being attacked by Jews in Palestine. its one of the reasons of which I know. This hate is for humanity and holy religion`s sake, not racism!!


PS: Anti-semitism actually means hatred of Jew AND Muslims. historically speaking were are both sons of Sam. so we are practically cousins!

Shem.

The split is said to occur with descendants of Abraham's two wives.

 

[AStrange~Nostalgia]

Why not stop propagandising educated people and read the book,"Infidel", by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and come back and tell us about it.

I don`t have the time to read a book at the moment. but I just read A horrible childhood description. and I`ll say some notes about it.

I quote from goodreads: "Infidel shows the coming of age of this distinguished political superstar and champion of free speech as well as the development of her beliefs, iron will, and extraordinary determination to fight injustice. Raised in a strict Muslim family, Hirsi Ali survived civil war, female mutilation, brutal beatings, adolescence as a devout believer during the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood, and life in four troubled, unstable countries ruled largely by despots. She escaped from a forced marriage and sought asylum in the Netherlands, where she earned a college degree in political science, tried to help her tragically depressed sister adjust to the West, and fought for the rights of Muslim women and the reform of Islam as a member of Parliament. Under constant threat, demonized by reactionary Islamists and politicians, disowned by her father, and expelled from family and clan, she refuses to be silenced.

Ultimately a celebration of triumph over adversity, Hirsi Ali’s story tells how a bright little girl evolves out of dutiful obedience to become an outspoken, pioneering freedom fighter. As Western governments struggle to balance democratic ideals with religious pressures"


(female mutilation, brutal beatings, adolescence... forced marriage) all I see is a punch of horrible actions prohibited by Islam.

e.g do you know that forced marriage is not full-conditioned marriage, hence, it`s considered adolescence. (she refuses to be silenced.) no woman should accept any of the things mentioned above. And her people have a place in hell.
And (female mutilation) there is no such nonsense in Islam!!!

this is what we call a retarded society.