Was Joan of Arc really an ENFP as opposed to INFP?

[Qlip]

But engaging in battle (not to mention carrying on with extended campaigns on willpower - and possibly delusion - alone) of your own initiative, against all outside pressures indicating that you probably should not, is appreciably different from not "shirking from battle."

It's all about motivation, I believe Fi would provide the willpower and certainly doesn't care about outside pressures. Actually, it seems to me that ENFPs are more sensitive to outside pressures than INFPs when it comes to matters of Fi. Delusion can be added to any type.

 

[Orangey]

It's all about motivation, I believe Fi would provide the willpower and certainly doesn't care about outside pressures. Actually, it seems to me that ENFPs are more sensitive to outside pressures than INFPs when it comes to matters of Fi. Delusion can be added to any type.

This can be used to rationalize anything to the point of meaninglessness, though. "She acted like an ESTJ, I guess, but that's because Fi is apparently like an amphetamine that completely changes the person's usual personality."

 

[Qlip]

This can be used to rationalize anything to the point of meaninglessness, though. "She acted like an ESTJ, I guess, but that's because Fi is apparently like an amphetamine that completely changes the person's usual personality."

*shrug* I don't know anything of Jd'A. I just think the reasons that have been stated specifically about INFPs are bunk. Like I said, I'm not making a claim.

 

[MacGuffin]

Joan of Arc was crazy.

Or moved by God.

Either way, MBTI becomes irrelevant.

 

[Elfboy]

It's all about motivation, I believe Fi would provide the willpower and certainly doesn't care about outside pressures. Actually, it seems to me that ENFPs are more sensitive to outside pressures than INFPs when it comes to matters of Fi. Delusion can be added to any type.

it is NOT about motivation. it's about energy level and how the person goes about doing what they do (motivation is more related to enneagram)

 

[Qlip]

it is NOT about motivation. it's about energy level and how the person goes about doing what they do (motivation is more related to enneagram)

So.. you are saying that personal values aren't a motivator? How about when they are violated? As far as energy levels, if you are arguing that INFPs are too lethargic to be in constant persuit of their ideals, maybe I'd agree a year ago, until I saw INFPs who seriously kick ass.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Really, [MENTION=3]MacGuffin[/MENTION] 's point is most relevant anyway ... ANY MBTI type, ANY enneagram type, ANYONE, who thinks they hear God's voice telling them what to do, and they do what the voice tells them to do, is capable of being a "Joan of Arc".

This thread is, of course, a moot point.

I am tired of the whole INFP has no energy / INFP 9 is so super-passive stereotype shit though. If you only knew ... lol

 

[CzeCze]

Joan of Arc was crazy.

Or moved by God.

Either way, MBTI becomes irrelevant.

A lot of people would beg to differ with you.

I don't necessarily.

But a lot of people would.

 

[Elfboy]

So.. you are saying that personal values aren't a motivator? How about when they are violated? As far as energy levels, if you are arguing that INFPs are too lethargic to be in constant persuit of their ideals, maybe I'd agree a year ago, until I saw INFPs who seriously kick ass.

I'm not saying that at all. I think the Fi and personal values as a motivator are very important. after all I think she is an ENFP (I am an ENFP too and this ENFP has PLENTY of fiery, Fi driven conviction) but I am arguing the energy levels. I have talked to several INFPs and I have never seen a single one display the kind of energy Joan of Arc displayed for that long a period (maybe a month at most if they were going completely ape shit for awhile, but even that I've never really seen. certainly not for 2 years straight. the woman was a monster)
I'm even starting to see the possibility of ESFP based on what [MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION] added

 

[Elfboy]

Really, [MENTION=3]MacGuffin[/MENTION] 's point is most relevant anyway ... ANY MBTI type, ANY enneagram type, ANYONE, who thinks they hear God's voice telling them what to do, and they do what the voice tells them to do, is capable of being a "Joan of Arc".

This thread is, of course, a moot point.

I am tired of the whole INFP has no energy / INFP 9 is so super-passive stereotype shit though. If you only knew ... lol

I'm not saying INFPs are passive at all, but there is a wide gulf between not passive and fiery Warrior Princess of Judgment
PS: 9s however? most INFP 9s are going to be 9w1 and yes, most 9w1s are extremely passive (stereotype or not, it's true until they integrate). however, Joan of Arc was not a 9

 

[Burger King]

I've met INFP 1s, 2s, 4s, 6s, and even an INFP 7 and INFP 3. none of them were like that, at least externally. an INFP is likely to feel these things, but they are not likely to do much about it, at least, not in the form and to the extent to which Joan did. she was like a freaking warrior princess

I think she may have been given the INFP label on the count that her life seems very typical "Fi-idealist." She seems E1. Most E1s are ESTJ/ISTJ right? Do you think perhaps she could be ESTJ/ISTJ (they have Fi as well and are considered a more practical bunch)?

 

[Elfboy]

I think she may have been given the INFP label on the count that her life seems very typical "Fi-idealist." She seems E1. Most E1s are ESTJ/ISTJ right? Do you think perhaps she could be ESTJ/ISTJ (they have Fi as well and are considered a more practical bunch)?

no.
- way too much Fi for an ESTJ
- too extroverted for an ISTJ
- no sense of routine or desire for a routine lifestyle whatsoever
- extremely unconventional (not impossible for an STJ, and not enough by itself to say not STJ, but certainly not likely)
- too driven by passion, ideals and otherworldly visions to be an STJ
- on a more subjective note, her vibe is the polar opposite of an STJ

PS: I think she was 6w7 Sx/So, but I can't rule out 1w2 (I can however rule out 1w9. 1w9s are tactful, soft spoken and more gentle in making "converts"; 1w2s are more like "fall on your knees and repent you evil mutha fuckaz!!!")

 

[Qlip]

I'm not saying that at all. I think the Fi and personal values as a motivator are very important. after all I think she is an ENFP (I am an ENFP too and this ENFP has PLENTY of fiery, Fi driven conviction) but I am arguing the energy levels. I have talked to several INFPs and I have never seen a single one display the kind of energy Joan of Arc displayed for that long a period (maybe a month at most if they were going completely ape shit for awhile, but even that I've never really seen. certainly not for 2 years straight. the woman was a monster)
I'm even starting to see the possibility of ESFP based on what [MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION] added

And these are precisely the reasons that I have been disagreeing with in this thread the whole time. I'm not going to say that she isn't more likely something else, but I am saying that so far I haven't seen a stated reason to reject the INFP. If you watch the Cunningham documentary on Netflix, you'll find that just watching the dude in action will quickly tire out any given nettard just to watch, and he's been doing this constantly for 30 years, and you will clearly see he's an INFP. INFPs engage and are energized in introverted activity related to their values. But I have noticed that sometimes an INFP will tie their lives up in an introverted activity that incidentally involves people. It's a very odd situation.. it's almost as if they people become objects (haha.. please don't get mad at me INFPs), in that case they seem like extroverts to people who don't understand what's going on.

Anyway, this whole thread is a load of BS as has been stated before. The lens of history is highly distorted. Throw in some bi-polar disorder, some mania, any number of things they didn't have treatments for back then and she could be any type. Even without that, sometimes a historical figures actions could be a lot more subdued, but their actions can resonate with the needs of the people to amplify their actions for the texts. Sometimes people didn't actually do the things that the text said they did in the way they said they did it. And, I think everybody has an unclear view on the activity involved in war. War is boring, battles are hellishly chaotic and short term.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

but I am saying that so far I haven't seen a stated reason to reject the INFP.

i have ver explained that: Joan of Arc was extrovert in her general behavior and during her whole life, not in specific occasions; and she did not repress Te, therefore she was not IFP.

 

[Qlip]

i have ver explained that: Joan of Arc was extrovert in her general behavior and during her whole life, not in specific occasions; and she did not repress Te, therefore she was not IFP.

Excessive and very constant uses of Te would seem very unlike INFP, that is something worth considering. I agree.

I just jumped in to dispel some incorrect INFP notions. Failing to confine herself to her room for long stretches of time to write Doctor Who fanfiction, that shouldn't be a factor at all.

 

[MacGuffin]

A lot of people would beg to differ with you.

I don't necessarily.

But a lot of people would.

Go ahead and beg, I don't mind.

 

[CzeCze]

Go ahead and beg, I don't mind.

Buddy, read it again! I said A LOT OF PEOPLE would beg to differ! Not me!

:tears out hair:
ops Midol:

 

[Riva]

I wonder what Étienne de Vignolles, AKA La Hire's type is.

Sounds like an ISTP to me.

Sorry people, no way a thread dedicated to La Hire would have had any feedback.

Had to sneak it in here.



Also,

I believe given to choose between ENFP and INFP, she is/was an INFP. To support the theory I'm going in the lines of her hearing voices, making people believe her by being so passionate about it an introverted (Fi) trait.

I do realize it's not a strong point to make.

I'm just interested in La Hire.

 

[Elfboy]

Excessive and very constant uses of Te would seem very unlike INFP, that is something worth considering. I agree.
I just jumped in to dispel some incorrect INFP notions. Failing to confine herself to her room for long stretches of time to write Doctor Who fanfiction, that shouldn't be a factor at all.

you're attempting to dispel notions that have never even been brought up in this thread. INFPs can be plenty strong and motivated, passionate advocates and do all sorts of variety of things outside being a reclusive daydreamer, but one thing that is totally outside of the natural tendencies of an INFP, (especially a 17 year old INFP) is being a charismatic figurehead, a military leader, excelling at formation and execution of plans, and living a life of constant conflict where she consistently had to be assertive, thorough, decisive and willing to dish it out in the moment (in all honesty, her ability to do this is surprising even for an ENFP. she had an ability to verbally bitch slap people that could give most Te doms a run for their money). INFPs do not have the fast tongues of ENFPs (or extroverts in general) and need more time to prepare for things like conflict and situations where they need to exercise large amount of assertiveness (ENFPs with strong Te can thrive on these things)

[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION]

Really, MacGuffin 's point is most relevant anyway ... ANY MBTI type, ANY enneagram type, ANYONE, who thinks they hear God's voice telling them what to do, and they do what the voice tells them to do, is capable of being a "Joan of Arc".

I strongly disagree with this. that's like saying any African American who grew up in the Jim Crow south could be a Martin Luther King. needless to say, they couldn't. such a role requires tremendous charisma, aggression channeled into passion, constant need to be ready for and deal with conflict (often at a moment's notice and often for extended periods of time), the ability to organize/allocate resources effectively etc.

 

[PeaceBaby]

you're attempting to dispel notions that have never even been brought up in this thread. INFPs can be plenty strong and motivated, passionate advocates and do all sorts of variety of things outside being a reclusive daydreamer, but one thing that is totally outside of the natural tendencies of an INFP, (especially a 17 year old INFP) is being a charismatic figurehead, a military leader, excelling at formation and execution of plans, and living a life of constant conflict where she consistently had to be assertive, thorough, decisive and willing to dish it out in the moment (in all honesty, her ability to do this is surprising even for an ENFP. she had an ability to verbally bitch slap people that could give most Te doms a run for their money). INFPs do not have the fast tongues of ENFPs (or extroverts in general) and need more time to prepare for things like conflict and situations where they need to exercise large amount of assertiveness (ENFPs with strong Te can thrive on these things)

Your argument is weak though. I myself was already in leadership positions by that age, so I think it's really about the individual. The whole point is that the ideal, the vision, can be such an overriding factor that it engages someone beyond all of their natural tendency or predisposition.

I strongly disagree with this. that's like saying any African American who grew up in the Jim Crow south could be a Martin Luther King. needless to say, they couldn't. such a role requires tremendous charisma, aggression channeled into passion, constant need to be ready for and deal with conflict (often at a moment's notice and often for extended periods of time), the ability to organize/allocate resources effectively etc.

*sigh*

You have missed the point, dear sir. Hearing God's voice, the vision, can be such an overriding factor that it engages someone beyond all of their natural tendency or predisposition.