Was Joan of Arc really an ENFP as opposed to INFP?

[Speed Gavroche]

I could see either ENFP or ISFP,

Why not ESFP?

I've met INFP 1s, 2s, 4s, 6s, and even an INFP 7 and INFP 3. none of them were like that, at least externally. an INFP is likely to feel these things, but they are not likely to do much about it, at least, not in the form and to the extent to which Joan did. she was like a freaking warrior princess

Yeah. It's weird that Joan of Arc was so much associated with a reckless, restless, overactive super religious and super patriotic woman like that, while most past of INFP here are quiet, individualistic, atheist etc. Actually, she made me more think ESFJ, since they are supposed to be the most religious and patriotic type. But she was a pragmatic improvisers, didn't care about procedures. So, ESFP.

 

[Redbone]

she just seems far to responsive, directing, choleric pragmatic, verbally quick on her feet and outwardly expressive to be Fi dom and inferior Te.

I've seen IXFPs do this when things came down to the wire. When it calls for defending "that one THING" to the bitter end, they can rocket that Te right to the front. Unlike other types, it seems to me that they can keep this up for a good while.

 

[Rajah]

I don't see why it's so surprising to conceive of INFPs in this way. They're not reserved when their ideals are threatened.

 

[Cellmold]

I do like speculation of this sort, but I always find historical figures to be of a rather fuzzy nature, except those we have more recent information on.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I don't see why it's so surprising to conceive of INFPs in this way. They're not reserved when their ideals are threatened.

Joan of Arc was overall unreserved, not in specific situations. She didn't repress Te, therefore she's not IFP.

 

[Orangey]

Yeah, if you rationalize her manifold un-INFP traits to fit with INFP anyway, then the entire idea of types loses meaning.

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION]
it's possible
but she seemed to internally bizarre to be an ESFP. I have trouble seeing her as an S dom
also, you're totally right about how strikingly different she is from the INFPs on this forum. they don't seem anything like her at all

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=9883]Redbone[/MENTION]
[MENTION=11]Rajah[/MENTION]
I've never seen an INFP keep up such an aggressive lifestyle for such a long period of time. it would drain their energy reserves like a granary in a famine

 

[Rajah]

[MENTION=9883]Redbone[/MENTION]
[MENTION=11]Rajah[/MENTION]
I've never seen an INFP keep up such an aggressive lifestyle for such a long period of time. it would drain their energy reserves like a granary in a famine

I see you one Hitler. There has been a ton of discussion on this forum regarding his type, and I remain convinced he's an INFP. (And, yes, I Godwinned this thing.) He was deeply principled - with really repugnant, racist, unfortunate principles, but principles nonetheless, which he pursued doggedly. I'm guessing I don't need to convince you he was aggressive.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I've never seen an INFP keep up such an aggressive lifestyle for such a long period of time. it would drain their energy reserves like a granary in a famine

You have absolutely no idea then the amount of energy and passion that an INFP can muster when they feel defend or follow an ideal.

 

[Elfboy]

I see you one Hitler. There has been a ton of discussion on this forum regarding his type, and I remain convinced he's an INFP. (And, yes, I Godwinned this thing.) He was deeply principled - with really repugnant, racist, unfortunate principles, but principles nonetheless, which he pursued doggedly. I'm guessing I don't need to convince you he was aggressive.

HELL no. ENFJ 6w5 Sx/So
fucked up Fe/Ni all the way lol

 

[Rajah]

HELL no. ENFJ 6w5 Sx/So
fucked up Fe/Ni all the way lol

I completely disagree with you.

Dogged pursuit of his own beliefs, living in his fantasy world as opposed to reality. Relentless commitment to this misguided cause, in which he truly believed what he was doing was right. An INFP can pursue "values" that are twisted and flat-out wrong. If they form his core set of values, he will pursue them, period.

As an aside, it's insulting to suggest an INFP inherently lacks commitment to a cause.

 

[Qlip]

Hmmm.. I can think of two very passionate, active, extroverted INFPs: Ray Bradbury and Bill Cunningham. Bill is out on the street constantly and at parties, hobnobbing and always with his camera ready to take pictures. Bradbury as a youth was constantly out at the studio lots harassing stars to get autographs and pretty much continued this into later life to get onto TV and into the movies. INFPs have a lot of drive when it matters.

 

[Elfboy]

You have absolutely no idea then the amount of energy and passion that an INFP can muster when they feel defend or follow an ideal.

the energy is not what I doubt (I'm an NFP myself) what I doubt is the action/external manifestation

 

[Elfboy]

I completely disagree with you.
Dogged pursuit of his own beliefs, living in his fantasy world as opposed to reality. Relentless commitment to this misguided cause, in which he truly believed what he was doing was right. An INFP can pursue "values" that are twisted and flat-out wrong. If they form his core set of values, he will pursue them, period.
As an aside, it's insulting to suggest an INFP inherently lacks commitment to a cause.

nooo,
- manipulation of crowds and upholding of what he considered community values (Fe)
- constant superstition, conspiracy theories and twisted, delusional vision of the future (Ni)

 

[Orangey]

Hmmm.. I can think of two very passionate, active, extroverted INFPs: Ray Bradbury and Bill Cunningham. Bill is out on the street constantly and at parties, hobnobbing and always with his camera ready to take pictures. Bradbury as a youth was constantly out at the studio lots harassing stars to get autographs and pretty much continued this into later life to get onto TV and into the movies. INFPs have a lot of drive when it matters.

I agree with your typing of Bill Cunningham, but I don't think Ray Bradbury was the same type. And anyway, even if they were, there's a very wide expanse between "harassing stars to get autographs" and riding into battle.

I don't know why the burden of proof is on those of us who don't think she's INFP anyway, really. I mean, what, "she wuz religious and stuff and had, like, real hard convictions so she must be INFP, cuz INFPs have like real hard convictions and stuff."

 

[Qlip]

I agree with your typing of Bill Cunningham, but I don't think Ray Bradbury was the same type. And anyway, even if they were, there's a very wide expanse between "harassing stars to get autographs" and riding into battle.

I don't know why the burden of proof is on those of us who don't think she's INFP anyway, really. I mean, what, "she wuz religious and stuff and had, like, real hard convictions so she must be INFP, cuz INFPs have like real hard convictions and stuff."

I'm not burdening anybody, I'm just scoping the possibilities. Well, like I said, it's hard to type people, but reading his Bio, Ray seemed very INFP and reminded me very much of Cunningham. I don't see why an Introvert would necessarily shirk from battle by cognitive function alone.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

[MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION]
it's possible
but she seemed to internally bizarre to be an ESFP. I have trouble seeing her as an S dom

I don't know. Kylie Minogue is an ENFP 6w7 Sx/Sor sure.

[youtube=VK03WUTSqPc]Kylie Minogue Sunday Night Interview 6/3/11[/youtube]

I see an obvious Ne/Si balance in Kylie Minogue "I think if you're not inspired by things around you, not aware of what has been before and what's coming up, isn't that called dead?" I don't see an obvious Ne/Si balance in Joan of Arc.

I think being internally weird is more ESFP and inferior Ni, ENFP would be more outwardly weird.

About ESFPs

•Free-spirited and fun-loving people persons

•Strongly linked to the Histrionic personality

•Somewhat linked to the Dependent, Hypomaniac and Borderline personalities

•Jung said that there was a majority of men among all ESPs, though ESFPs are in fact more common among women than among men

•Repress their Introverted iNtuition function, meaning they sometimes experience paranoid thoughts which they are convinced are true

Bolded: I think it's more that for her, isn't it?

About ENFPs

•Quirky and verbally fluid people persons

•Strongly linked to the Histrionic personality

•Somewhat linked to the Narcissistic, Hypomaniac and Borderline personalities

•More common in women than in men

•Repress their Introverted Sensing function, meaning they sometimes experience flighty and inconsistent cognitive states and neglect to reflect on their past

Bolded: hum.. I'm not sure it's her.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Joan of Arc was always energetic. So, the argument "INFP can be energetic on some occasions bla bla bla" is irrelevant.

She did not represse Te, as it has been explained, therefore she was not IFP.

nooo,
- manipulation of crowds and upholding of what he considered community values (Fe)
- constant superstition, conspiracy theories and twisted, delusional vision of the future (Ni)

Yes.

Except that he was INFJ, not ENFJ. He was puerile/tertiary Ti and inferior/repressed Se, not the contrary.

 

[Orangey]

I'm not burdening anybody, I'm just scoping the possibilities. Well, like I said, it's hard to type people, but reading his Bio, Ray seemed very INFP and reminded me very much of Cunningham. I don't see why an Introvert would necessarily shirk from battle by cognitive function alone.

But engaging in battle (not to mention carrying on with extended campaigns on willpower - and possibly delusion - alone) of your own initiative, against all outside pressures indicating that you probably should not, is appreciably different from not "shirking from battle."