Palpatine

[Hazashin]

Darth Vader is cnnected to 5 and then is premiditating. Anakin is not, ans is impulsive and reckless like a 8, never spend time thinking.

No, he thinks and worries. He's just so reactive and touchy with his Fi that he likes to jump into action to fix the problem as fast as he can.

Also, remember, Anakin is Sx-dom, and if he is an Sx-dom 6, he is likely to be counterphobic. Counterphobic 6s often look like 8s on the surface level.

6s need protection. Anakin protect people and don't find any need to be protected. 8.

He sought protection from the Dark Side and power, because he was afraid of bad things happening. Why do you think he went to Palpatine for reassurance? Why would he so easily manipulated, if he was an 8? 8s have a radar for manipulation, and I highly doubt they'd go that long without sensing it.

6s seek protection showing their loyalty. Not by having power.

Says whom? This is just one way of seeking protection. Power is another way.

Also, living in a violent and chaotic galaxy like that, being loyal can only get you so far. Power is far more efficient in that situation.

And he certainly was loyal to those close to him and even with the Jedi up to a certain point until he felt betrayed by them, and he had an internal struggle with whether being loyal to the Jedi and Obi-Wan or to Sidious and the Dark Side, which approve of strong attachment.

Again, you ignore the facts and speculate on what was tryed to be conveyed without any evidence. You try to invent a new reality, hoping that we believe it istead of face the reality and admit that you are wrong.

What facts have I ignored? I've watch the movie multiple times (facts, evidence), and this is what seems clear to me.

This is all just a matter of interpretation.

He feels more powerful than anybody. It's just not enough for him. But he is convinced that he has the potential to be all-powerful. The emperor is just there to make him realease that potential, and he think he can kill him whenever he wants. So, yes, he is a 8.

The whole reason why he joined the Emperor at first was out of fear of losing Padme (plus, he had come to trust Palpatine over the years when he was being manipulated by him).

 

[Mal12345]

No, he thinks and worries. He's just so reactive and touchy with his Fi that he likes to jump into action to fix the problem as fast as he can.

Also, remember, Anakin is Sx-dom, and if he is an Sx-dom 6, he is likely to be counterphobic. Counterphobic 6s often look like 8s on the surface level.

True, and the 6w5 becomes 8-like at a certain level of dysfunction.

 

[Hazashin]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here to spark debate (or try to, anyway):

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeSix.asp
"The reason Sixes are so loyal to others is that they do not want to be abandoned and left without support—their Basic Fear. Thus, the central issue for type Six is a failure of self-confidence. Sixes come to believe that they do not possess the internal resources to handle life’s challenges."

This perfectly describes Anakin's fear of not being able to save Padme from the fate prophesied in his nightmares. And then, in typical fashion, his belief that he cannot save Padme became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Where do you see fear of abandonment in Anakin?

I don't have housework. "6s are afraid that they can't protect their own life not the life of others" makes no sense from the perspective of 6s, who want to protect their source of security in another person, a group, or an ideology. The dark side provided Anakin with that sense of security and the "internal resources to handle life’s challenges."

"Strong person protecting the weak" is a 6 trait on the healthy levels.

I'm not saying that Anakin considered himself weak. Heaven forbid! Indeed, he considered himself a match for any foe except death itself, because he is "afraid of being afraid." The problems started with Padme, and his inability to prevent her eventual fate which he foresaw. But even before that, Anakin was a rebel against authority.

"Strong protecting the weak" is common in many healthy types.

(Watches movie...)

Nope, Anakin looks like a 6 deteriorating to 3. He is over-compensating for a disintegrating lack of self-confidence and eventually resorting to psychopathic behavior.

How is he over-compensating?

He's so self-confident that he went over to the dark side looking for help. Yeah right.

It's not impossible for 8s to go look for help.

And if you'll listen more closely, Anakin does not sound sure about being able to defeat the Chancellor. "I..I can overthrow him."

No, he's 100% confident when he says that.

Anakin was a bit of a rebellious teenager, but, for the most part, I think he was just trying to contain his wild instincts. He tries to respect authority and fit into the Jedi mold, but he's just not cut out for it.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here to spark debate (or try to, anyway):

I'll take this as a test.

Where do you see fear of abandonment in Anakin?

Padme's abandonment of Anakin is her dying in childbirth. Anakin does not understand that death is a transformation and not an ending. His perceptions are all in black-and-white terms, as Obi-wan stated.

"Strong protecting the weak" is common in many healthy types.

It's not, actually. Would you like to specify some healthy types who champion or protect the weak?

How is he over-compensating?

Anakin is over-compensating for a lack of self-confidence by acting more powerful than he really is, like some guy with a tiny dick buying a jacked-up truck.

It's not impossible for 8s to go look for help.

Straw man. I'm not looking at what's possible for a person outside of the typological sphere, but at the range of possibilities within a type itself. But at the moment I'm looking at archetypes. Type 8 - wants power for it's own sake; type 6 - wants to be empowered to overcome certain obstacles, whatever they may be for that individual. At the healthy levels, the 6 has overcome these personal obstacles and seeks to help others with their own by championing their causes.

No, he's 100% confident when he says that.

Sounding confident and being confident are two different things. Braggadocio, as in this case, only sounds confident. Observe that he couldn't even beat Obi-wan at the end of Revenge.

Anakin was a bit of a rebellious teenager, but, for the most part, I think he was just trying to contain his wild instincts. He tries to respect authority and fit into the Jedi mold, but he's just not cut out for it.

These should have been trained out of him from a young age. I'm not sure where you're going with this question.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

No, he thinks and worries. He's just so reactive and touchy with his Fi that he likes to jump into action to fix the problem as fast as he can.

Anakin rush into action lead by anger, not because he is afraid by someone.

He sought protection from the Dark Side

No. He sought protection for The oththers and don't feel the need of protection for himself. 8, not 6.

And he certainly was loyal to those close to him and even with the Jedi up to a certain point until he felt betrayed by them, and he had an internal struggle with whether being loyal to the Jedi and Obi-Wan or to Sidious and the Dark Side, which approve of strong attachment.

8s are loyals too, and hyperreactive too toward abiguity in loyalty. But the key difference is that they see them as protectors and don't feel the need to be protected by others. Therefore Ankin is 8 and not 6.

This is all just a matter of interpretation.

That's the problem. You interpret, byut you're interpretation are not based on facts bu your imaginaton only and don't make sense.

The whole reason why he joined the Emperor at first was out of fear of losing Padme (plus, he had come to trust Palpatine over the years when he was being manipulated by him).

Again, to preotect others, not to protect himself. 8, not 6.

Learn

 

[Mal12345]

Anakin rush into action lead by anger, not because he is afraid by someone.



No. He sought protection for The oththers and don't feel the need of protection for himself. 8, not 6.



8s are loyals too, and hyperreactive too toward abiguity in loyalty. But the key difference is that they see them as protectors and don't feel the need to be protected by others. Therefore Ankin is 8 and not 6.




That's the problem. You interpret, byut you're interpretation are not based on facts bu your imaginaton only and don't make sense.





Again, to preotect others, not to protect himself. 8, not 6.

Learn

"To protect other not himself" doesn't mean he's an 8.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

That's one of the most crucial aspects of the Type 8.

You havn't done your homework.

 

[Mal12345]

That's one of the most crucial aspects of the Type 8.

You havn't done your homework.

Type 8 at what level of integration?

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Every levels. That's one of the basic proposition which rule their life.

 

[Mal12345]

Every levels. That's one of the basic proposition which rule their life.

I did my homework and that wasn't part of being the 8.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

I did my homework and that wasn't part of being the 8.

[8] see themselves as protectors. They see themselves as a shield for their friends and for the inncents protecting them with their own body, finghting agains injustice at the same time

Go do your homework.

 

[Mal12345]

Originally Posted by Helen Palmer
[8] see themselves as protectors. They see themselves as a shield for their friends and for the inncents protecting them with their own body, finghting agains injustice at the same time
Go do your homework.

If I did, it definitely would not consist of reading Helen Palmer. She has no theory of integration and disintegration.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Helen P relates completely on the concept of integration/disintegration. And anyway that concept don't expalin why Anakin is not a 8.

 

[Mal12345]

Helen P relates completely on the concept of integration/disintegration. And anyway that concept don't expalin why Anakin is not a 8.

It explains why type 6 Anakin has deteriorated to 3 and lost his internal moral compass.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

As I said, the basic focus that drives his life is not of a 6, but of a 8. Anakin has nothing 3.

 

[Mal12345]

As I said, the basic focus that drives his life is not of a 6, but of a 8. Anakin has nothing 3.

You have made the common error of misidentifying 6 as 8. Read this
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/members/misid/6and8.asp
(It may be necessary to subscribe if you haven't already)

 

[Speed Gavroche]

No. I've ever explained the difference between 8 and 6, and it clearly indicates that Anakin Is 8.

Prove me wrong.

Oh wait, you can't.

 

[Mal12345]

I hesitate to copy too much from that site, but this is too informative to pass up.

"Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore."

E.g., Anakin vs. Obi-wan throughout the last two movies.

 

[Mal12345]

"Both types (6 and 8) at this Level (6) can be dangerous; ironically, Sixes are probably more dangerous at this stage than Eights since they are anxious and may strike out at someone impulsively or irrationally." E.g., Anakin force-choking Padme.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

You just said that 6 and 8 can both be agressive, but you did not explain how theses two types differ to each other. I explained how they differ, and Anakin is a 8.

Your feebles skills can't match with me.