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Palpatine

Mal12345

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Was Hitler a 8w7?

Manipulative power-crazed dictator are not necessarly 8w7. Fear is not 8w7 Achille's hell, but it is the one of the 6s. Palpatine is 6w5 evil ùanipulative politican, just like Hitler, Nixon or Dick Cheney.

I don't see Hitler as a Palpatine or vice versa. Hitler's strength lie in his speeches. He was a talker. Palpatine could actually fight. He only played the coward (like Clark Kent) in order to disguise the fact that he was a Sith Lord.
 

Speed Gavroche

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I don't see Hitler as a Palpatine or vice versa. Hitler's strength lie in his speeches. He was a talker. Palpatine could actually fight. He only played the coward (like Clark Kent) in order to disguise the fact that he was a Sith Lord.


Palpatine has strength in speeches too. When he talks, the whole senate just listent him and nod. And he his actually coward in fight, as it is explained in the quotes I posted.

Elfboy is inteligent enough to see his mistake and understand. Why couldn't you be?
 

Mal12345

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Palpatine has strength in speeches too. When he talks, the whole senate just listent him and nod. And he his actually coward in fight, as it is explained in the quotes I posted.

Elfboy is inteligent enough to see his mistake and understand. Why couldn't you be?

That last is called "Argument from Intimidation." I'm supposed to be convinced, not by your argument, but by this idea that I don't want to be branded as "unintelligent," or at least "not as intelligent as Elfboy."

Yes I know Palpatine can give a speech - a poor and obviously deceptive one. But speech-giving is not where his strength lies.

As usual, you are pointing to some minor characteristics of people and not to their strengths. The fact that Palpatine gave a speech does not make him a Hitler personality type.
 

Speed Gavroche

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Yes I know Palpatine can give a speech - a poor and obviously deceptive one. But speech-giving is not where his strength lies.

Palpatine is Sp/So, Hitler was Sx/So. So the first is poor and deceptive in his speech, the second is charismatic, magnetic and passionate.

However, I never said that speech was his main strenght, but it's not especially the strength of 8s either. And fear/cowardice is his main Achille's Heels, which mean hat he is a 6, not a 8.

As usual, you are pointing to some minor characteristics

I'am pointing the main characteristics.

of people and not to their strengths.

Palpatine has not the 8's strenght, and have weakness that 8s hardly have, therefore he is not 8.

The fact that Palpatine gave a speech does not make him a Hitler personality type.

No, but I explaine the reason of their difference, the key common characteristic is a combination of fear and hatred of the parental figure.
 

Mal12345

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Palpatine is Sp/So, Hitler was Sx/So. So the first is poor and deceptive in his speech, the second is charismatic, magnetic and passionate.

However, I never said that speech was his main strenght, but it's not especially the strength of 8s either. And fear/cowardice is his main Achille's Heels, which mean hat he is a 6, not a 8.



I'am pointing the main characteristics.



Palpatine has not the 8's strenght, and have weakness that 8s hardly have, therefore he is not 8.



No, but I explaine the reason of their difference, the key common characteristic is a combination of fear and hatred of the parental figure.

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typeeight.asp
"When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), self-confident Eights suddenly become secretive and fearful at Five." This aptly describes Palpatine's deceitfulness the whole time he was plotting to become Emperor.
 

Speed Gavroche

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http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/typeeight.asp
"When moving in their Direction of Disintegration (stress), self-confident Eights suddenly become secretive and fearful at Five." This aptly describes Palpatine's deceitfulness the whole time he was plotting to become Emperor.


Bullshit. Any type can feel fear. But fear is not the Type 8 Achille's Heels. But it is of 6. So, Palpatine is 6, not 8. It's you who refuse to look at the dominant trait of Palpatine, not me.
 

Mal12345

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Bullshit.

My, that is a compelling argument!

Any type can feel fear. But fear is not the Type 8 Achille's Heels. But it is of 6. So, Palpatine is 6, not 8. It's you who refuse to look at the dominant trait of Palpatine, not me.

I didn't say that fear was Palpatine's Achille's Heel. I've only said that it is his Stress Point as well as part of a Clark Kent act he put on for disguising the fact that he is a Sith Lord.
 

Cellmold

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I see the stereotypical archetypes of what people believe an INTJ to be in the characterisation of Palpatine, but do I see the functions of one? Not really.
 

Mal12345

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I see the stereotypical archetypes of what people believe an INTJ to be in the characterisation of Palpatine, but do I see the functions of one? Not really.

Palpatine put Te first. Ni was only used for plotting purposes, as in thinking so far ahead as to order a clone army years in advance of needing one. His lifestyle was definitely not Ni, but Te. Ni was only a support function for his Te lifestyle.
 

Mal12345

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I didn't say that fear was Palpatine's Achille's Heel.
But that's what said the link from the Star Wars Encyclopedia that I posted. Which proves that you are wrong.

"Fear ultimately proved to be Palpatine's achilles' heel as it caused him to constantly plot and devise schemes against his enemies."

That describes the 8's deterioration to 5.

"They [8s] think that they will be able to maintain their power by being shrewder and more premeditated. Instead of acting recklessly, they will attempt to act with more foresight [especially using the Force to see into the future]; by being more secretive, they will be able to strike without warning [such as the result of Windu's attempt at arresting Palpatine]; by being more wily, they will be able to hide from their enemies until they are ready to defeat them utterly [Palpatine spent years hiding his abilities as a Sith Lord until the moment was ripe]. In short, the temptation for Eights to go to Five lies in the union of power and safety, a seemingly unbeatable combination [and it was unbeatable for becoming Emperor]."
Personality Types.
 

Mal12345

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This Achilles Heel shouldn't be confused with the Achilles Heel of each e-type, such as Pride for the 2 and Anger for the 8. The article obviously wasn't delving into the enneagram. Not that it doesn't apply to Palpatine. He is an avatar of the unhealthy 8. His main passion is for using anger and aggression to release the powers of the dark side. The enneagram Achilles Heel of Palpatine is anger, hate, and aggression. He refers to them constantly when attempting to recruit new members to the dark side, especially with Luke. It is through these - not fear - that Palpatine attained both triumph and defeat.

The Achilles Heel of the Jedis on the light side is love. By repressing the need for love, by attempting to act like Monks, they have blocked themselves from appreciating and releasing the full power of the Force. When Luke defeated Anakin in battle the true power of love was revealed for the first time in Jedi history, only it was not romantic love but that between father and son.

Edit - Love isn't an e-type Achilles Heel. That would be Pride. But it's harder to make an argument for Pride whereas repressed and over-expressed love was important to the plot of the prequels.
 

Speed Gavroche

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I didn't say that fear was Palpatine's Achille's Heel.

"Fear ultimately proved to be Palpatine's achilles' heel as it caused him to constantly plot and devise schemes against his enemies."

That describes the 8's deterioration to 5.

"They [8s] think that they will be able to maintain their power by being shrewder and more premeditated. Instead of acting recklessly, they will attempt to act with more foresight [especially using the Force to see into the future]; by being more secretive, they will be able to strike without warning [such as the result of Windu's attempt at arresting Palpatine]; by being more wily, they will be able to hide from their enemies until they are ready to defeat them utterly [Palpatine spent years hiding his abilities as a Sith Lord until the moment was ripe]. In short, the temptation for Eights to go to Five lies in the union of power and safety, a seemingly unbeatable combination [and it was unbeatable for becoming Emperor]."
Personality Types.

Your passage about 8 describe Darth Vader. Not Palpatine.

You confuse being mischievous with 5ness and 8ness. 6s can be mischievous and calculating.

The stressing point is wrongly interpretated. It means that 8s find stressful and have a hard time to be frugal and repess their guts like a a 5, but can disintegrate to that point under severe strees. That's what happened to Anakin/Vader, who is a true 8.

However, Palpatine is not "stressed" when he acts like a 5. He does that easily, it's his confort zone. His plans took decades to be achieved but he never had problems or found stressful to be calm and patient. He started to be afraid when he had to truly take action and fight.

This Achilles Heel shouldn't be confused with the Achilles Heel of each e-type, such as Pride for the 2 and Anger for the 8. The article obviously wasn't delving into the enneagram. Not that it doesn't apply to Palpatine. He is an avatar of the unhealthy 8.

The article decribed the Palpatine's personality and doing this, the passion of Type 6. Artists create characters and they have a personality type even when they don't think about that especially. But if we follow what you say, George lucas was sitting in his harmchair and thought "hum, yeah, I will create Palpatine as the avatar for Type 8, but he will be a very fearful and coward 8". Obviously, that's not credible.

His main passion is for using anger and aggression to release the powers of the dark side.

Just like every sith. That doesn't say anything about his enneatype. However, Darth Plagueis used his fear of authorithies to make him balance to the dark side. Anakins isa true 8 and he not afraid of anybody.

The enneagram Achilles Heel of Palpatine is anger, hate, and aggression.

No. He control that too much well to have that as Achilles's hell. He simply know and like to use it when it's time to do.

He refers to them constantly when attempting to recruit new members to the dark side, especially with Luke. It is through these - not fear - that Palpatine attained both triumph and defeat.

He refers to Luke's anger, not his anger. However, Palpatine is never as much in anger than a true 8 like Palpatine is.

The Achilles Heel of the Jedis on the light side is love. By repressing the need for love, by attempting to act like Monks, they have blocked themselves from appreciating and releasing the full power of the Force. When Luke defeated Anakin in battle the true power of love was revealed for the first time in Jedi history, only it was not romantic love but that between father and son.

What you say here has nothing to do with typology.
 
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