The Avengers

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Alright, alright, everyone go ahead and ride me out on a rail but...

Oh, you're about to get it, Dom!

I agree with you on Loki--he definitely is a heavy Fe user. Didn't see it before.
I now type Loki either ENFJ or INFJ.

Bruce Banner is an INFJ. He's angry all the time. Seriously.

I wouldn't take the "...I'm always angry" quote literally.

I saw it as his round-about way of saying that in exile he has learned to accept his volatile emotional state, managed to channel it into a constructive means while simultaneously allowing it to simmer beneath the surface.

Ti-doms are also notorious for exploding with sporadic rage under stressful situations.
To counter this--to control it--Banner has extensively developed his inferior Fe.

Hawk-eye is ALSO an ENFJ, a 3 which makes him harder to scratch. He mirrors Black Widow who is ISTP. That's why them beating the crap out of each other was so hot and evenly matched.

No--that's because they're both ISTPs. It's like locking a King Kong and a T-Rex in a steel cage.
You'll get yourself a show. No talking--just spontaneous and violent ass-kicking galore.

Iron Man, in the actual comic, is an ENTJ. On screen, the character is ENTP, simply because tertiary Fe is so appealing. The comic book character is urbane and difficult to relate to, so they made the wise choice to cast RDJ.

Absolutely. Iron Man from the comics isn't even likable, really.

Thor, again, is NOT ESTP in the comic book. He's an ISTJ. I still say he was playing it SJ, possibly ESTJ. Thor could pass as ESTx, at any rate.

My Man Thor has the trademark SP rage down pat (see the beginning of Thor).
He also desires action over social order (see the sly smirk during his fight with Hulk in the hangar).

 

[Domino]

I will fight you, Duck of Death! *waves little bunny paws menacingly*

 

[Amargith]

Listen to the Fe-Dom, she knows -for the most part at least. Seriously though, Loki Fe-Dom? Ain't he too playful, too pouty, too 'the world is my stage', too spoiled brat? It ain't like he really cares about any one else but himself due to his feeling rejected by his family. You'd think that an Fe-Dom, even an unhealthy one would be more group minded, no? I'd say this is tertiary Fe being butthurt, which is why Stark recognizes it so well (he was an equally obnoxious brat at some point after all)

Youre right on the Fe flying about though. Holy shit. Only Fury and his men go for Fi.

 

[Rex]

Keep the comic books out of this.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

^It's sort of funny if you read the above with a slight lisp. Haha!
But seriously. Let's talk about this Loki guy some more.

His type is kind of irrelevant when you get down to it--the movie character is clearly molded after The Dark Knight's Joker: A catalyst for mischief and mayhem that our principle cast must navigate through.

So naturally, he would resemble an ENTP on-the-surface.
Again, irrelevant.

He was psychotic. His functions were completely out of whack. From the look of things, he was relying on shadow functions (which as an INTJ would give him an appearance of an ENTP or ESFP).

What I'm trying to get at is: Loki is pretty much untypeable in The Avengers.

 

[Amargith]

I dunno.. I still think an unhealthy Fe-Dom would be more sanctimonious and nagging instead of whiny and petulant.

 

[Cellmold]

I dunno.. I still think an unhealthy Fe-Dom would be more sanctimonious and nagging instead of whiny and petulant.

Or yknow....flipside it all and kill everyone for unappreciating them? We're talking about someone who is clearly an unhappy chappy here.

Just because someone is an Fe dom doesnt mean they will always be a martyr for others. Often the considerations of Fe are to do with groups, I suppose,....but it doesn't mean they want to help or get along with said group, in fact they could reject it, want to destroy it or put it out of the way. So lets take that group and blow it up into an extreme objective stance: An entire race.

Values are just what you learn along the way; Fe is a template to use these values through....so what happens when your experience teaches you bad values?

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Loki is different from his INTJ comic book counterpart (Calm down, Rex--just using it as a reference).
Obviously a heavy Ni user (probably leads with it).
And the manipulative orchestrations reek of Fe, except it is an underdeveloped version.

I can see him as ENTP for The Avengers, but it is clearly not Loki's natural state.

 

[Burger King]

Thor: ESTP 3w2 Sx/So
Iron Man: ENTP 7w8 Sp/Sx - 8 wing, he's very much in touch with anger and very aggressive
Captain America: ISFJ 6w5 So/Sx - cautious, strong sense of duty and responsibility, yadda yadda, typical e6
Hulk: INTP 5w6 Sp/Sx (he's 9w8 in the comics) 9w8 - don't know where you're seeing e5, lacks detachment
Black Widow: ISTP 3w4 Sp/Sx - she seems 6ish as well, but not too confident about it
Hawkeye: ISTP or ISTJ 3w2 Sp/??
Nick Fury: ENTJ 8w7 So/Sx

Loki: INFJ 4w3 Sx - classic sx 4 average to unhealthy level behavior

I can see him as ENTP for The Avengers, but it is clearly not Loki's natural state.

Iron Man and Loki are not the same types. How are you seeing ENTP? I can see FJ or TJ for him. One is methodical, structured, deliberate, he plans for the outcome and scenarios. The other is spontaneous, scattered, his thoughts are branching, make it up as you go type of person.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Iron Man and Loki are not the same types. How are you seeing ENTP? I can see FJ or TJ for him. One is methodical, structured, deliberate, he plans for the outcome and scenarios. The other is spontaneous, scattered, his thoughts are branching, make it up as you go type of person.

He is naturally an INxJ, but is in dreaded "shadow" mode during The Avengers (ENTP).

 

[Totenkindly]

And why do you think he is in "shadow[S][/S] " mode again?

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

...Mocking me again?

To answer your question: Because Avenger Loki is the complete opposite from Thor Loki.

While he was very much a schemer from the get-go, initially Loki had a very subtle plan that he didn't reveal to anybody, and maintained an air of mystery and menacing silence as he launched it. It was similar to a knife-in-the-back. It smacked of the INTJ mastermind. It was this close to working, too.

He's the polar opposite in The Avengers. Loki goes with an enthusiastic "sledgehammer" approach, revealing his plan from the minute he arrives. He is no longer quiet or self-contained--in fact, he can't stop talking. Nonetheless, the role he plays does not feel organic for a second. He is lashing out like an angry child; a "diva" as Tony Stark notes. And his plan never really gains a realistic amount of traction. Coulson also alludes to with his dying words; Loki is ultimately responsible for his inevitable defeat.

This "extroverted narcissist" isn't a natural state for the character--he is obviously psychotic and deluded from the minute he arrives in The Avengers. Given what has happened to him over the course of Thor and The Avengers, it makes sense.

 

[Patches]

I'm inclined to agree that Hawkeye is a blatant ISTP, but I also read a lot of comic books and have a bit of difficulty separating my impressions from the comics from the movie.

 

[Totenkindly]

...Mocking me again?

Geesh, dude -- If you consider that to be "mocking," you really need to loosen up a bit. (and I'm not sure what the "again" is -- obviously you are taking things more much thin-skinned than I've meant them).

To answer your question: Because Avenger Loki is the complete opposite from Thor Loki.

While he was very much a schemer from the get-go, initially Loki had a very subtle plan that he didn't reveal to anybody, and maintained an air of mystery and menacing silence as he launched it. It was similar to a knife-in-the-back. It smacked of the INTJ mastermind. It was this close to working, too.

He's the polar opposite in The Avengers. Loki goes with an enthusiastic "sledgehammer" approach, revealing his plan from the minute he arrives. He is no longer quiet or self-contained--in fact, he can't stop talking. Nonetheless, the role he plays does not feel organic for a second. He is lashing out like an angry child; a "diva" as Tony Stark notes. And his plan never really gains a realistic amount of traction. Coulson also alludes to with his dying words; Loki is ultimately responsible for his inevitable defeat.

This "extroverted narcissist" isn't a natural state for the character--he is obviously psychotic and deluded from the minute he arrives in The Avengers. Given what has happened to him over the course of Thor and The Avengers, it makes sense.

Thank you for the explanation. I really just didn't even see it, because I guess I just honed in on his normal type. If he's stressed, he's stressed, but I didn't really think of it in terms "shadow ENTP," nor am I convinced it needs to be viewed that way.... I don't think it adds much to the discussion, except as a confusing diversion in regards to the character's true type.

It's also a movie, so I don't take translations from book type to movie type to mean much -- the reality is in that in movies, you need to extravert more because it's a visual medium.... it's difficult to pull off the pensive type convincingly, especially in an action movie. Histrionics are just far more typically seen in superhero movies because of the medium.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Geesh, dude -- If you consider that to be "mocking," you really need to loosen up a bit. (and I'm not sure what the "again" is -- obviously you are taking things more much thin-skinned than I've meant them).

It's hard to read sarcasm via text, don'cha know?
I simply assumed.

It's also a movie, so I don't take translations from book type to movie type to mean much -- the reality is in that in movies, you need to extravert more because it's a visual medium.... it's difficult to pull off the pensive type convincingly, especially in an action movie. Histrionics are just far more typically seen in superhero movies because of the medium.

For modern audiences that is disgustingly true.
Take a look at the reaction to Drive which featured a lead that speaks less than The Terminator.

Either way, I suspect Loki's evolution from "quiet schemer" to "grandiose warlord" was done on purpose to emphasize his mental decay. Despite being a big budget "blockbuster" The Avengers was a very thoughtful character-driven work...which is among the reasons I enjoyed it so much.

 

[Totenkindly]

For modern audiences that is disgustingly true.
Take a look at the reaction to Drive which featured a lead that speaks less than The Terminator.

For me, movies like "The Remains of the Day" and "Drive" are the exception -- where characters who do not really say much (or don't say anything about what they're actually feeling) are actually portrayed very convincingly. Gosling and Hopkins (and a few others) have always been good at those kinds of roles; Gosling in "Lars and the Real Girl" is another good example, where his character with social anxiety still manages to convey a great deal regardless of what he doesn't say.

Drive didn't really do well in the box office, did it? Sigh.

Either way, I suspect Loki's evolution from "quiet schemer" to "grandiose warlord" was done on purpose to emphasize his mental decay. Despite being a big budget "blockbuster" The Avengers was a very thoughtful character-driven work...which is among the reasons I enjoyed it so much.

For whatever reason, I found it fun the first time in the theater but haven't felt compelled to watch it again; it didn't really present anything that I felt the need to re-experience/savor.

 

[Elfboy]

Iron Man: ENTP 7w8 Sp/Sx - 8 wing, he's very much in touch with anger and very aggressive

that works

Captain America: ISFJ 6w5 So/Sx - cautious, strong sense of duty and responsibility, yadda yadda, typical e6

he's not cautious at all, and he's certainly not a typical 6 (also, where's the 5 wing?)

Hulk: INTP 5w6 Sp/Sx (he's 9w8 in the comics) 9w8 - don't know where you're seeing e5, lacks detachment

that could work

Black Widow: ISTP 3w4 Sp/Sx - she seems 6ish as well, but not too confident about it

there is nothing 6-ish about her. she is about to potentially die, calmly talks on her cell phone and kicks several guys' asses all the while looking like she's bored that it isn't more of a challenge

Loki: INFJ 4w3 Sx - classic sx 4 average to unhealthy level behavior

perhaps, but 6w5 works better imo

 

[Burger King]

he's not cautious at all, and he's certainly not a typical 6 (also, where's the 5 wing?)

He's a walking SJ e6 description. In those e6 descriptions, there is an emphasis on loyalty, towards the systems, beliefs, etc etc. There's also a selflessness that I see in him that I see in type 6. There's this sense of failure, inability to fulfill duty, and he wants to redeem himself. I can also see e1 for him, because of his rigidity, underlying anger, and sense of right/wrong. I won't argue wing, but a 6 core seems reasonable. For the record, even though it shouldn't be taken literally, the 6w5 type is labeled the 'defender.'

there is nothing 6-ish about her. she is about to potentially die, calmly talks on her cell phone and kicks several guys' asses all the while looking like she's bored that it isn't more of a challenge

Counter-phobic 6. She has trust and guidance issues that are commonly associated with e6. She's very good at reading between the lines, ie the conversation with the imprisoned Loki. She revealed her background and her relationship with Hawkeye - the theme was lack of guidance until she met Hawkeye. You mentioned her kicking ass, which doesn't really narrow it to e3.

perhaps, but 6w5 works better imo

In the Thor movie and in this movie he seems very 4. I think I can see where you're getting the 6 (planning/cautious behavior), but the 4 comes first.
- He sees himself as primarily flawed, cast away, rejected, an outsider in relation to Odin and Thor
- Blatant envy of his brother Thor
- His shame and suffering is projected outward at hostility towards others ---> his dramatic behavior that ppl are confusing for entp 'shadow'
- Image frustration - shame that he cannot live up to his idealized self-image
- He looks at other ppl like they're stupid little lemmings and acts entitled - because he's fixated on the darkness, on his own suffering (4 delusion)

 

[Jade Curtiss]

Ironman: ENTP 7w8 sx/so
Bruce Banner: INFJ 9w1 sp/sx
Thor: ESTJ (possibly ESTP) 3w2 sx/so
Hawkeye: ISTP 5w6-9w8-3w2
Black Widow: ISTP 3w4-cp6w5-8w9
Cap America: iSFJ 2w1 so/sp
Nick Fury: ENTJ 8w7 so/sx
Loki: INTP 4w3 Sx/sp

 

[Poki]

I didnt see enough of hawk eye to tell if he is ISTP or not. It takes more then a keen sense of perception for me to deem him ISTP. I need to see more of an STP side. Black widow I can buy as ISTP.

Thor seems very ESTP in the movie. He has to much of the calm and composure to be ESTJ. Its like you can see him sitting in Ti as opposed to some fury wrath of a rage when fighting and getting his ass somewhat handed to him(I dont mean he loses, I just mean he doesnt come out unscratched. He takes a beating).

Bruce Banner I can see as INTP. But at the end when its HULK SMASH HELL YEAH!!!! that one part is ISTP to the core, its our tear shit up, lets see what the hell we can do physically side (though it doesnt make me think Bruce Banner is ISTP) You wont see the "lets see what we can do physically", all you will see is what we can do.