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Socrates' Type

Mal12345

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Educated guesses as to Socrates' type tend to say INTP, although this page
http://www.celebritytypes.com/blog/category/jungian-functions/
has him as an ENTP:

"So Socrates was not only ENTP, he was also an antisocial bastard. Indeed, had Martin Luther King Jr. known this side of Socrates, it remains to be taken up anew whether he would ever have compared Socrates to Jesus Christ."

It's nice to see some good arguments for type being made. I just don't see the anti-social side of Socrates. He was against society as it stands (particularly the absolute democratic form of government), but not against society per se. I like the arguments showing that Socrates was an extravert; but as a social reformer, and not anti-social, I will have to go with ENFP.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I think he was most certainly Ni dom.


Victor actually reminds me of a Socrates. Some sort of Ni/Fi thing. ?
 

Mal12345

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I think he was most certainly Ni dom.


Victor actually reminds me of a Socrates. Some sort of Ni/Fi thing. ?

The problem with typing Socrates is that he left behind no writings that survived, and mainly all we have to go on is Plato's description. And who knows how much of Plato's personality went into that description?

So I need to look at the historical Socrates, the hippie-esque social reformer.
 

KDude

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Victor makes statements/declarations of truth, as he sees it. Socrates just asked questions, and seems to believe that he doesn't know anything. I don't think they're that similar, even if they both play the part of the "gadfly".
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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To Mal:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Plus how he died>I get a lone wolf feel from him. He was not afraid to not only stand against the masses for their cruel judgments, but he held firm in it even knowing it would result in his demise. A real zealot feel to it. And a ...... little too much pride. Which is why I get an Ni dom feel from him. He liked to nip at heels and stir things up. This smacks of ENTP, but I don't think ENTPs are so questionning and open-ended. They tend to not want to think outside the box, but rather understand every nuance of the box. Although I do think his questionning nature wasn't as innocent as it appeared to be; I think he knew where he was headed, but wanted to play with people. Which seems very Te/Fe to me.

?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Victor makes statements/declarations of truth, as he sees it. Socrates just asked questions, and seems to believe that he doesn't know anything. I don't think they're that similar, even if they both play the part of the "gadfly".

Really? I think Victor asks questions with his statements. The same way Socrates really meant statements with his questions.
 

Mal12345

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To Mal:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Plus how he died>I get a lone wolf feel from him. He was not afraid to not only stand against the masses for their cruel judgments, but he held firm in it even knowing it would result in his demise. A real zealot feel to it. And a ...... little too much pride. Which is why I get an Ni dom feel from him. He liked to nip at heels and stir things up. This smacks of ENTP, but I don't think ENTPs are so questionning and open-ended. They tend to not want to think outside the box, but rather understand every nuance of the box. Although I do think his questionning nature wasn't as innocent as it appeared to be; I think he knew where he was headed, but wanted to play with people. Which seems very Te/Fe to me.

?

Did Plato accurately characterize Socrates in his Dialogues?
 

KDude

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Really? I think Victor asks questions with his statements. The same way Socrates really meant statements with his questions.

I always get the impression that Victor is very confident in his perceptions. I only think Socrates was confident that he simply asked questions in the first place. He lived in a culture of extreme prejudice, reliance on tradition, mob mentality, etc.. He didn't seem to provide answers, but he thought one should take a step back. That the "unexamined life is not worth living". His philosophy just seemed more about that process, rather than any specific end.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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To Mal:

God it was so boring to read (the dialogues), but I just got this image of Socrates sitting in the middle of the street plying passers by with questions. And when they'd question him, he'd return their response with more questions, etc. With an occasional bit of enlightened statements thrown in, twisted around with altruistic irony. (as if he were smirking at people). And I've seen some documentaries about him. The rest I flesh out with my own intuition.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I always get the impression that Victor is very confident in his perceptions. I only think Socrates was confident that he simply asked questions in the first place. He lived in a culture of extreme prejudice, reliance on tradition, mob mentality, etc.. He didn't seem to provide answers, but he thought one should take a step back. That the "unexamined life is not worth living". His philosophy just seemed more about that process, rather than any specific end.

I just don't think Socrates was as innocent as he appeared. Or wanted to appear?
 

Mal12345

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I just don't think Socrates was as innocent as he appeared. Or wanted to appear?

Question Authority. Judges talk about justice but they know not what they talk about. But Socrates isn't claiming to know all about it either.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Question Authority. Judges talk about justice but they know not what they talk about. But Socrates isn't claiming to know all about it either.

Questionning authority and going against the mainstream is very Ni dom. No?


And I mean innocent in a different way. I mean he wasn't as open-ended as he appeared. I think he knew where he was heading, and I think he led others there, regardless of appearing not to. I think he was very cunning.
 

KDude

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I just don't think Socrates was as innocent as he appeared. Or wanted to appear?

I think he knew he had a leg up on people simply for his questions. I don't think he was leading anyone to do anymore than that for themselves.

Funnily, this was partly what he was accused of too. That he had some agenda, and was corrupting people's minds.
 

Mal12345

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Questionning authority and going against the mainstream is very Ni dom. No?


And I mean innocent in a different way. I mean he wasn't as open-ended as he appeared. I think he knew where he was heading, and I think he led others there, regardless of appearing not to. I think he was very cunning.

The Celebrity typing page on Socrates argues very convincingly that his purpose was focused externally, unlike the Ni-dom. But it missed the point that Socrates was focused externally on his interlocutors, and got his best arguments from them rather from himself.

But once again, we have to consider whether Socrates or Plato was trying to lead us somewhere. After all, Plato was the author.
 

KDude

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But once again, we have to consider whether Socrates or Plato was trying to lead us somewhere. After all, Plato was the author.

I don't think the character/person of Socrates was leading in any particular direction. Whether he was a figment of Plato's imagination is up for discussion, but I don't think he wrote him that way. He's presented more as a town fool who questions everything.

Plato OTOH offers a pretty extensive worldview on many facets of life. Rather than Socrates leaving things in the realm of inquiry, Plato is an idealist (not necessarily in the MBTI sense). Just the Republic alone shows his level of control-freakishness.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I think he knew he had a leg up on people simply for his questions. I don't think he was leading anyone to do anymore than that for themselves.

Funnily, this was partly what he was accused of too. That he had some agenda, and was corrupting people's minds.

Where there's smoke...

I don't think he was corrupting people's minds. Just saying that to always, always be asking questions, implies you are so comfortable with the possible outcomes, you need not speak to it directly; it seems to me his mind had already contemplated the various possibilities, and likely settled on a few more likely ones, though I don't doubt he was always open to being wrong (Ni dom again). And his style was to not lead others, but 'let' them find the truth for themselves. I think he knew his truth (the truth), he just didn't show it.


To Mal: I don't know. I don't really know that it's that important.
 

Mal12345

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I don't think the character/person of Socrates was leading in any particular direction. Whether he was a figment of Plato's imagination is up for discussion, but I don't think he wrote him that way. He's presented more as a town fool who questions everything.

Plato OTOH offers a pretty extensive worldview on many facets of life. Rather than Socrates leaving things in the realm of inquiry, Plato is an idealist (not necessarily in the MBTI sense). Just the Republic alone shows his level of control-freakishness.

Socrates, at least, was leading toward a negative.
 

Ghostwheel

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It is told of Socrates that as a young man, while he was a soldier in the middle of a battle, he sat down to think, oblivious of his surroundings.

If true, then I'd say INTP.
 

Savage Idealist

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Last I remember, Socrates was most likely an ENTP 7w8 > 4w3 > 8w7 sp/so ILE-ILE.
 

RaptorWizard

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For Socrates everything was negotiable and in an MBTI book in the ENTP description everything is negotiable so Socrates was ENTP or INTP and 7w8/6 and 5w6/4.
 
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