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The Nietzschean Ubermensch

Nicodemus

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I know I could Google this, but what are "mos italicus" and "mos gallicus"?
Simply put, ways of interpreting legal texts. The mos italicus adhered to the authority and absolute rightness of the original texts and early commentaries; the mos gallicus viewed the texts as texts, written in certain times by certain human beings, and rather tried to make sense of the corpus of legal texts (corpus iuris civilis) in its entirety. You can guess which came first.
 

Zarathustra

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Once a small child came up to me and called me a fucker. I thought it was pretty funny to called names by a 6 year old!
I'll take the same attitude to your ad hominem attack.

I engaged with your argument at all levels.

And, once again, I now must point out your hypocrisy (is that an ad hominem, too?): I like how you respond to my supposed ad hominem with one all your own...

Very insightful.

You're right, you said that Zarathustra was INTJ. I missread your post. Still, my conclusion stands.

As I said before, conviction in opposition to evidence.

Just now, you don't have the benefit of having simply misinterpreted the evidence.

Now you realize that you misinterpreted the evidence, but are still trying to cling to your conviction.

Fi. It's such a funny thing.

It's interesting to me that you have some after me with such venom. Is that type realted too, or simply an admission?

Well, I could certainly give you a functional explanation as to why.

And it would be quite illuminating and accurate.

But let's just call it an eye for an eye.

Except that, in my case, I have plucked out both of yours (which weren't very good in the first place), and kept both of mine intact.

In fact, everyone who will ever read this conversation will see as much.

To which Athenian200's comments about your behavior stand as an early testament.

Of course, you could also simply offer an apology for misrepresenting another person's (peoples', really...) thought, and thereby hold onto the last shred of your rapidly disintegrating dignity.
 

Zarathustra

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Simply put, ways of interpreting legal texts. The mos italicus adhered to the authority and absolute rightness of the original texts and early commentaries; the mos gallicus viewed the texts as texts, written in certain times by certain human beings, and rather tried to make sense of the corpus of legal texts (corpus iuris civilis) in its entirety. You can guess which came first.

Would I be correct in reading this as similar to the strict constructionism vs. loose constructionism debate over the U.S. Constitution?

(I apologize beforehand if you're not familiar; I'm quite astounded by the level of knowledge the non-Americans here seem to have of U.S. politics [et al], and I'm never quite sure where it ends or begins...)
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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Simply put, ways of interpreting legal texts. The mos italicus adhered to the authority and absolute rightness of the original texts and early commentaries; the mos gallicus viewed the texts as texts, written in certain times by certain human beings, and rather tried to make sense of the corpus of legal texts (corpus iuris civilis) in its entirety. You can guess which came first.

Those terms would translate from Latin as The Italian way, and the Gallic way, so I knew that those methods of interpreting law came from Italy and Gaul (France) respectively. I just didn't know what they meant.

Many Americans seem to believe that the idea of loose construction and strict construction are an original American debate, and fail even in their terminology to acknowlege how old this debate about interpreting documents actually is.

This could well be an archetypical representation of Te vs. Ti.
 

Nicodemus

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This could well be an archetypical representation of Te vs. Ti.
Perhaps it is because I do not believe in function theory that I did not see that before, but you are perfectly right. I do believe, however, that Te is the way of the enlightenment.
 

entropie

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Te is the way of the enlightenment ? Wow what's next ? Si is the way of prostitution ? :D

If you have a glimpse around the forum, is majorly NF people who have a penchant for talking philosophy at all. I do not think that Te is the way of enlightenment :D
 

Zarathustra

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Te = empiricism = the Enlightenment

At least there you can see a connection, and an understandable one at that.

What the hell would be the connection between Si and prostitution?

Btw, Ti = rationalism = also part of the Enlightenment, albeit more or less in conflict with empiricism
 

Beargryllz

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An ubermensch would have all the positive aspects of all the traits and none of the negatives.
 

coronzon93

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My thoughts on the Ubermensch are simple: they are similar to a Psychopath, but more apathetic and less antisocial. they don't actively oppose the status quo, but they don't adhere either. Morals are subjective, consequences objective. I think the Ubermensch is INTJ or INTX with elevated Fi, but I can't say for sure. my reasoning is based on the premise that Nietzsche would probably have identified the Ubermensch with himself (the Will to Power can be a very self-serving life-style, also akin to that of a non-violent Psychopath), the Ni is associated with internal creativity, Ti with internal rationality and Fi with personal values over commonly accepted values. my interpretation holds that the Ubermensch would have the following constellation: Ni=Ti (approx) > Ne=Te (approx) > Fi > Fe or Ni=Ti (approx) > Fi > Ne=Te (approx) > Fe. Si and Se are less relevant, but should not be higher than the T or N items. However, I claim no dogma, my arguments are rational, albeit subjective. Kind of a paradox, because Personality metrics are used to quantify a quality, empirical subjectivism. feel free to argue otherwise, I'm more than willing to listen to viable arguments.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I thought the ubermensch was more like the superego personified.?
 

Speed Gavroche

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ExTP 8w7 Sx/So, of course.
 

Mole

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Caliban the Untermensch

It's the untermensch that matter. And the untermensch that matters most is Caliban.

Caliban from Shakespeare's Tempest says it like it is -

"You taught me language, and my profit on’t
Is I know how to curse. The red plague rid you
For learning me your language!".
 

KDude

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Jan 26, 2010
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Did he? Neitzsche didn't do much except write books, I thought. It seemed to me that the ubermensch was someone with his mentality, but lived more. Kind of seemed like he was idealizing the last piece of the puzzle that he didn't have -- a lot of Se. I don't agree that ETPs are the ubermensch, but maybe an ESTP (but not all ESTPs or most or even a fraction would qualify..). ENTPs are full of drive, but it's like long range ballistic energy, firing missles in all directions. And they are people with an eye on potentialities. Not reality. NTs in general reach for something new or otherworldly to place back here on earth. This is all anathema to an ubermensch. They are an individual who simply enjoys life as it is. They aren't trying to be visionary or inventive or philosophical about it. The philosophy is a secondary result of them living without preconceptions. I can only think of one ubermensch, and he was fictional. Robert E Howard's Conan.
 

Emotionalogic

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Any type with fi. Nietzsche was an INTJ, so its obviously skewed in that direction in his writing, but theoretically any type with fi can pull it off. The defining feature of the Ubermensch is self-defined values, as opposed to values defined through other people or society ("the herd"). Thats the definition of fi vs. fe right there. Nietzsche conceived the Ubermensch as an alternative to the fe-obsessed value system of Christianity (Jesus was probably ENFJ), so fi is the salient characteristic. Gabriele d'Annunzio, for instance, was ESFP :shocking: http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21569371-aesthete-and-übermensch
 
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