GOD

[Aleksei]

I made a thread a few weeks ago, on God's various depictions in fiction. This one, however, is about the logical conception of a deity or supreme being, under the working assumption that one exists in real life.

I think if God were to exist, then the following would necessarily be true of Him:

-He'd be a Deistic deity, given that he has not smitten any opposing religions to his own.
-He wouldn't exactly give much of a shit given that he seems to not intervene.
-He doesn't seem to change the laws of physics all that much, so he has to be a pretty decisive guy.
-Given that he has not intervened much (if at all) in human affairs in the last two millenia, he's obviously interested most in observing humanity, rather than in assisting humanity or perfection (as most major religions paint their deities).

Based on that, I'd conclude God (assuming he exists) is probably an INTJ 5w6 sp/so, |R|COEN.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[nozflubber]

you think everyone's 5w6! redraw god... but more so in your own image~

 

[Aleksei]

you think everyone's 5w6!

No I don't. I don't even think I'm one myself.

 

[skylights]

haha aleksei so much Ti here. though i do appreciate the effort to classify "GOD".

i think your argument is rationally sound enough but it kind of lacks... i dunno... depth? it just makes a lot of assumptions about things we can't really know. how do you know there hasn't been intervention, etc.? plus the laws of physics might seem quite stagnant to us but that is assuming a deity shares our timeframe. the laws of physics we recognize did not hold, as far as we know, 14 billion or so years ago.

if there is a deity, i assume it is unclassifiable by human standards - though i do think i would enjoy a (benevolent) god that is 9w1 sx/sp ESFJ.

 

[Nonsensical]

FAKE.
that's his type.

But I agree with INTJ. Completely. I think of the fictional character of Jesus as an INTJ, too.

 

[Aleksei]

Jesus was a very fucking obvious ENFJ. Yahveh as described in the old testament was ENTJ (ENFP in the new one).

 

[skylights]

Jesus was a very fucking obvious ENFJ. Yahveh as described in the old testament was ENTJ (ENFP in the new one).

you think an ENFJ can tolerate 40 days alone in the desert?

i can't see it. maybe INFJ

 

[Aleksei]

you think an ENFJ can tolerate 40 days alone in the desert?

He needed to talk to his pop. I could see an ENFJ making that kind of sacrifice for family.

INFJ is a decent fit, but I do think he had loads more Fe than Ni.

 

[Nonsensical]

you think an ENFJ can tolerate 40 days alone in the desert?

i can't see it. maybe INFJ

You think an INFJ can handle brutal persecutions but still stick to his business and job? Think about the social and personal pressures and temptations he had to deal with...everyone fucking shitting all over him all the time and he kept his chin up and dealt with it because it was his JOB. He was a total INTJ. ENFJ, ENFP my ass. Sorry, Alseki. I know you're entitled to your beliefs, but that is a garbage call.

 

[Nonsensical]

You start going wrong when you automatically hang up the NF logo on a person like Jesus just because they were compassionate and caring. Humanitarians are just as much rationals as they are idealists. don't make a false judgment on something this silly.

 

[Aleksei]

You think an INFJ can handle brutal persecutions but still stick to his business and job? Think about the social and personal pressures and temptations he had to deal with...everyone fucking shitting all over him all the time and he kept his chin up and dealt with it because it was his JOB.

NFJs can take a lot of shit if they need to to fulfill what they believe to be their duty for others. They are Js after all. Jesus was Fe as fuck, and... not really very concerned for efficiency.

And sticking to their job through thick and thin because it's their duty and just that? Sorry, that's not an NTJ thing, that's an STJ thing. It's Si. NTJs stick to their own vision, through thick and thin. If they don't have a vision to carry forward, they will usually focus on preserving their own asses (most NTJs do this, in fact -- the most common enneagram type for ENTJs, and the third most common for INTJs, is 8).

You start going wrong when you automatically hang up the NF logo on a person like Jesus just because they were compassionate and caring.

I hung the Fe logo on Jesus for this reason. More specifically, for the reason that he was a visionary (Ni) whose vision had nothing to do with rational or material improvement (Te), and everything to do with societal values (Fe).

 

[Thalassa]

You think an INFJ can handle brutal persecutions but still stick to his business and job? Think about the social and personal pressures and temptations he had to deal with...everyone fucking shitting all over him all the time and he kept his chin up and dealt with it because it was his JOB. He was a total INTJ. ENFJ, ENFP my ass. Sorry, Alseki. I know you're entitled to your beliefs, but that is a garbage call.

Hmm? No. He didn't do it because it was his job, he did it because of intense moral feeling, an overwhelming emotional sense of dedication. INFJ.

 

[Aleksei]

Why I?

 

[Thalassa]

Why I?

Vision first, people later. People are important, the vision is ultimately about people, but it's all about the vision first and foremost. Jesus was led more by vision than by people. Plus, he always was praying alone in the garden, and as skylights pointed out, disappeared in the desert for six weeks.

I don't see Jesus as someone who was easily influenced by the thoughts or opinions of others, either. He was all up in the temple at age twelve and turned to his mom and was like, "hey! didn't you know I'd be doing my father's business? step off!"

He was meek, he was mild, there was nothing to attract others to him (and aren't ENFJ men especially notorious at attracting others?) except for HIS MESSAGE. He was also a big martyr, and that's an IxFJ quality, methinks.

I'm really moved by the idea of Jesus. Even if he wasn't the son of God, I'm pretty moved by his sacrifice and his bigger morals of forgiveness and charity and love. Pretty impressive. It's the message that lasts. Ni dom.

 

[Aleksei]

Vision first, people later. People are important, the vision is ultimately about people, but it's all about the vision first and foremost. Jesus was led more by vision than by people. Plus, he always was praying alone in the garden, and as skylights pointed out, disappeared in the desert for six weeks.

I don't see Jesus as someone who was easily influenced by the thoughts or opinions of others, either. He was all up in the temple at age twelve and turned to his mom and was like, "hey! didn't you know I'd be doing my father's business? step off!"

He was meek, he was mild, there was nothing to attract others to him (and aren't ENFJ men especially notorious at attracting others?) except for HIS MESSAGE. He was also a big martyr, and that's an IxFJ quality, methinks.

Makes sense... although I'm not sure why EFJs wouldn't be any less prone to martyrdom.

 

[Aleksei]

i think your argument is rationally sound enough but it kind of lacks... i dunno... depth? it just makes a lot of assumptions about things we can't really know. how do you know there hasn't been intervention, etc.? plus the laws of physics might seem quite stagnant to us but that is assuming a deity shares our timeframe. the laws of physics we recognize did not hold, as far as we know, 14 billion or so years ago.

No solid evidence of intervention exists, so if He intervenes he does so in a rather quiet and unobtrusive manner. The laws of physics at this point are actually developed enough to explain where they do not hold (quantum mechanics is specifically a theory of what we as humans cannot predict), so the assumption that physics did not hold previously is probably false. Nevertheless, I do make some assumptions that may or may not be true there -- mostly because as a Te user I was guiding myself on what's been determined to be most likely. However, I can think of at least three other theories for God's relationship to the universe (all of which assume God is all-seeing, all-knowing all-powerful).

Theory 1 (ripped from a Bill Hicks act): Creationists of various stripes are right. God created the universe around the time he created humanity, and all evidence to the contrary has been planted by God to test our faith. Now, a God who wants to test humanity's faith in order to allow us in Heaven is not a benevolent God. Most likely He is a control freak who wants to be surrounded by people who have absolute faith in Him and will obey him unquestioningly. Given the very limited amount of improvements God has made to Earth, he is most likely not a 1. Given that miracles purportedly happen on occasion, however, He probably has occasional bouts of generosity, which suggests integration into Enneagram 2. As such God under this conception is likely ENTJ, 8w7 sx/sp, RC|O|EN, SLE-Ti (ESTp).

Theory 2: Same as above, but rather than God seeking to test humanity's faith, He erased his hand in creation in order to fuck with humanity's heads for his own amusement. That would make God ENTP, 7w8 sx/sp, RCUE|I|, EIE-Ni (ENFj). If he did the same in order to study our reactions, rather than simply to lol at them, he'd instead be 5w4 sx/sp, and LII-Ne (INTj) in Socionics.

Theory 3: God is a truly benevolent being, who in His infinite wisdom decided to give humanity free will. Miracles and other traces of divine intervention are real, but He mostly keeps a hands-off attitude. Such a God is obviously not concerned with perfection , likely has a Feeling preference, and given the very original conception of the universe is probably an Ni user. Based on that he's most likely ISFP, 2w3 so/sx, RCU|A|N, EII-Ne (INFj).

 

[Snuggletron]

God would likely be insane if it existed and wouldn't have a gender or humanistic traits to slap a mbti type on. You try knowing everything about the universe because you created it and NOT get bored enough to want to off yourself. I'd be so bored if I was a god I'd make myself not exist.

 

[INTP]

the "god" is in your head and its all your functions working together in perfect harmony, but people cant see it since some functions work in unconscious level, thus they dont realize that the god is actually themselves and they seek/imagine him outside their heads.

conclusion = gods type is XXXX

 

[Moiety]

Also, it's just not that important a question for me to live my life. And if it were I'd be arrogant to claim I knew the answer. That is if I had a definition of God to deal with in the first place. Do you believe in unicorns? Do you believe in horses? First define, a unicorn and then a horse, and then I'll tell you if I believe in their existence or not.

 

[Aleksei]

Also, it's just not that important a question for me to live my life. And if it were I'd be arrogant to claim I knew the answer. That is if I had a definition of God to deal with in the first place. Do you believe in unicorns? Do you believe in horses? First define, a unicorn and then a horse, and then I'll tell you if I believe in their existence or not.

It is not necessary to define God as both omnipotent and benevolent. I have a friend who defines god as benevolent but not omnipotent -- for the purposes of this exercise I defined him as omnipotent, and came to the conclusion He is not benevolent.

It's not an important question ofr me either. I don't believe in God. It was just a fun theoretical exercise.