The Pillars of the Earth

[Aleksei]

Anyone read it?

Tom Builder- ISFP, 3w4 sp/so
Alfred- ISTP, 6w7 sp/sx
Ellen- ISFP, 6w7 sx/sp
Jack Jackson- ENTP, 7w6 sx/sp
Aliena- ENFP 4w5 sx/sp at the beginning, transforms into an ESTJ 2w3 sx/so after being raped
William Hamleigh- ESFP, 8w7 sp/so
Prior Philip- ENFJ, 2w1 so/sp
Waleran Bigod- INTJ, 8w9 sp/so
Richard- ISFP, 4w5 sp/sx
King Stephen- ESTJ, 3w4 so/sx
Queen Maud- ENTJ, 8w7 sx/so

 

[chihuahuasrluv]

I like how you did Aliena's typing. I've been wondering how a traumatic event ( rape, death) can affect someone's personality type. I was told it doesn't, I disagree though. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on that.

Great book and I'm enjoying the miniseries as well.

 

[Aleksei]

I certainly think a person's type can, and often does, change due to traumatic events. It makes sense, given that that kind of experience is very emotionally jarring -- it could easily affect your perspective of the world, you could start thinking and acting in a different way as a way to cope. A good example of this is probably Patrick Jane (ENTP 3w4 so/sx, turned INFJ 5w6 sp/sx). His Ti and Fe were already essentially tied, but his perception turned heavily inwards due to depression when his wife and kid died.

In Aliena's case it seems to me that what William did to her was a jarring wake-up call to the cold, harsh reality outside her castle and the fantasy world she had constructed within it alongside her brother and her butler (I forget his name), and she took permanent refuge in her more "grounded" lower functions as a way to cope. I considered the idea her enneagram type had shifted to 3w2 rather than 2w3, but she really doesn't appear to thrive for excellence for the sake of her own validation, but rather as a way to take care of her brother like she had promised her father.

So what do you think? Do you agree with my typings of the characters? I promise I won't pick a fight with you over it.

 

[chihuahuasrluv]

I agree on the typing & what you just stated.

I certainly think a person's type can, and often does, change due to traumatic events. It makes sense, given that that kind of experience is very emotionally jarring -- it could easily affect your persoective of the world, you could start thinking and acting in a different way as a way to cope.

Agrees so much. I wonder if infj/infp are more vulnerable to this since considering how they can retreat into their own world and considering an infp is a bit known for the rose colored glasses when it comes to people and the world to have it shaken so, how can an infp truly ever go back to how they thought.

 

[Aleksei]

Agrees so much. I wonder if infj/infp are more vulnerable to this since considering how they can retreat into their own world and considering an infp is a bit known for the rose colored glasses when it comes to people and the world to have it shaken so, how can an infp truly ever go back to how they thought.

Yeah, it makes sense. I figure INFPs would be most likely to take refuge in their lower functions like Aliena did and become ISTJs, whereas INFJs would probably become colder and turn into INTJs as a result.

Of course though, an INFP or ENFP could simply keep their type, and gain a darker value set as a result. Scary thought...

 

[Ratsimoan]

Anyone read it?

Tom Builder- ISFP, 3w4 sp/so
Alfred- ISTP, 6w7 sp/sx
Ellen- ISFP, 6w7 sx/sp
Jack Jackson- ENTP, 7w6 sx/sp
Aliena- ENFP 4w5 sx/sp at the beginning, transforms into an ESTJ 2w3 sx/so after being raped
William Hamleigh- ESFP, 8w7 sp/so
Prior Philip- ENFJ, 2w1 so/sp
Waleran Bigod- INTJ, 8w9 sp/so
Richard- ISFP, 4w5 sp/sx
King Stephen- ESTJ, 3w4 so/sx
Queen Maud- ENTJ, 8w7 sx/so

I never experience- rape. But I have experience death and depression. But it never change or transform my personality or me. I'm enfp 4w5 ( like the character Aliena). I do believe traumatic experience can have such an impact on you that it seems like your personality has change but it hasn't. I never thought I would see true myself again but I did- thanks to 4w5. Maybe I'm special. One thing about 4w5, when we are going through our darkest moment, we hold on to who we are- " we will stay true to ourselves, no matter what". So maybe this Aliena was never 4w5. Maybe she's a 4w3. But I'm speaking from an enfp and 4w5 perception.

 

[Aleksei]

Everyone's different. 16 personality types can't capture the diversity of human personality -- they just describe the basic mesh of it.

Aliena wasn't just raped. That night she realized, in a very nasty way, that her posh lifestyle as the daughter of a feudal lord, which she fantasized she still had, was over. She had to flee, had to pick her way through a new and unforgiving world, with her little brother in tow, and she suppressed her fanciful Fi as a way to cope -- taking refuge in the more useful Te and Si.

I fucked up her enneagram something fierce though. She turned into a 6w7 sx/sp, rather than 2w3 sx/so. My bad. Alfred on the other hand is an idiotic 3w4 sp/so (rather reminiscent of Jayne Cobb).

 

[Ratsimoan]

Everyone's different. 16 personality types can't capture the diversity of human personality -- they just describe the basic mesh of it.

Aliena wasn't just raped. That night she realized, in a very nasty way, that her posh lifestyle as the daughter of a feudal lord, which she fantasized she still had, was over. She had to flee, had to pick her way through a new and unforgiving world, with her little brother in tow, and she suppressed her fanciful Fi as a way to cope -- taking refuge in the more useful Te and Si.

I fucked up her enneagram something fierce though. She turned into a 6w7 sx/sp, rather than 2w3 sx/so. My bad. Alfred on the other hand is an idiotic 3w4 sp/so (rather reminiscent of Jayne Cobb).

I know personality are different. I wasn't debating whether she was an enfp but whether she was original an 4w5. Because a 4w5 will hold tight to their true self in their darkest hours or moments. Most times 4w5 (say enfp 4w5) will not turn dark and not suppress their fi or fe and not take refuge in their Te and Si. Now some 4w5 might disagree.

 

[Aleksei]

True, true. She could actually have been a 4w3, or 7w6.

 

[chihuahuasrluv]

I never experience- rape. But I have experience death and depression. But it never change or transform my personality or me. I'm enfp 4w5 ( like the character Aliena). I do believe traumatic experience can have such an impact on you that it seems like your personality has change but it hasn't. I never thought I would see true myself again but I did- thanks to 4w5. Maybe I'm special. One thing about 4w5, when we are going through our darkest moment, we hold on to who we are- " we will stay true to ourselves, no matter what". So maybe this Aliena was never 4w5. Maybe she's a 4w3. But I'm speaking from an enfp and 4w5 perception.

Would a 4w3 be able to swift from a enfp to estj. Though one could argue she was an infp who gave into her estj shadow side and stayed there but.... * waves hand around*

 

[Aleksei]

Hmm, plausible, but I think ENFP. She was quite sociable and energetic.

 

[chihuahuasrluv]

Hmm, plausible, but I think ENFP. She was quite sociable and energetic.

I relate to her so much it's scary. We have a lot of the crappy stuff in common. She's way more sociable than me. I understand that she had to transform herself to survive and help her brother. Of course she would have loved to remain an enfp but life is cruel bi*** and sometimes you have to sacrifice who you are to survive.

 

[Aleksei]

Yes indeed

 

[Ratsimoan]

True, true. She could actually have been a 4w3, or 7w6.

I thought she could be, 4w5 did not sit well with me. I don't know much about 7w6. But I know type 7 don't live in their emotions too much.

 

[Ratsimoan]

Would a 4w3 be able to swift from a enfp to estj. Though one could argue she was an infp who gave into her estj shadow side and stayed there but.... * waves hand around*

That does make sense because when we are stressed, our shadow type resurface. So she could be an infp. I don't know if a 4w3 would switch personality types. I know they would be on mask, if that's the right word.

 

[Aleksei]

Revised types (including Big 5 and Keirseyan variant):

Tom Builder- ISFP, 1w9 sx/so, R|C|UAI, Craftsman (Artisan)
Alfred- ISTP, 3w4 sp/so, RCU|E|N, Craftsman (Artisan)
Ellen- ISFP, 6w7 sx/sp, RL|U|EI, Artist (Artisan)
Jack Jackson- ENTP, 7w6 sx/sp, SCUA|I|, Inventor (Rational)
Aliena (1)- ENFP, 4w3 sx/sp, SLUE|I|, Champion (Idyllic)
Aliena (2)- ESTJ, 6w7 sx/sp, SL|O|AI, Administrator (Guardian)
William Hamleigh- ESFP, 8w7 sp/so, SLU|E|N, Promoter (Artisan)
Prior Philip- ENFJ, 2w1 so/sp, RCO|A|I, Teacher (Idyllic)
Waleran Bigod- INTJ, 8w9 sp/so, RCO|E|I, Mastermind (Rational)
Richard- ISFP, 4w5 sp/sx, RLU|E|N, Craftsman (Artisan)
King Stephen- ESTJ, 3w4 so/sx, SLO|E|N, Administrator (Guardian)
Queen Maud- ENTJ, 8w7 sx/so, SCO|E|I, Field Marshal (Rational)