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Famous Generals

Valiant

Courage is immortality
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Robert E. Lee is often tagged as ISFJ.

Yeah, that's why I wrote what I did.
His superficial, overly pious behavior can be taken as that.
Mostly because he's a huge E and a huge J, taking things in and really being defined by his environment/culture plus following it with unusual fervor.

Although, his way of doing stuff is really Te-oriented.
I can stretch it to say he's either ESTJ or ENTJ.
The meekness is mostly stoic calm + deep belief in the Jesus.
 

Killjoy

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Yeah, that's why I wrote what I did.
His superficial, overly pious behavior can be taken as that.
Mostly because he's a huge E and a huge J, taking things in and really being defined by his environment/culture plus following it with unusual fervor.

Although, his way of doing stuff is really Te-oriented.
I can stretch it to say he's either ESTJ or ENTJ.
The meekness is mostly stoic calm + deep belief in the Jesus.

Interesting. I've always thought Lee's method and (often over-reliance) on his gut instinct was rather Ni.

What do you say for Jackson and Longstreet?
 

Halla74

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I didn't realize ESTPs were susceptible to cooky reincarnation shit and beating on shell-shocked soldiers.

We get the job done, and don't lose sleep if we hurt bruise a few people's ILAC. If someone is shell-shocked, and you are their commander, they are getting paid to pick up the goddamn rifle and go kill the enemy. If they choose to be shell shocked and hide in their foxhole, then they risk their lives and the lives of their fellow troops. Sometimes people need a good kick in the ass to get their shit straight. It's war, dude. What did you want Patton to do, sit down with them and thell them theywere a special person?

And belief in reincarnation is something anyone of any MBTI type can choose to believe in.

Anything else?

To add:

Julius Caesar - ENTJ
Napoleon Bonaparte - ENTJ
Gebhard von Blücher - EXTJ
Georgy Zhukov - ENTJ
Robert E. Lee - ENTJ (him being pretty pious made him a bit milder than usual, but it's there)
George Washington - ESTJ
Sun Tzu - INTJ
William the Conqueror - ENTJ
Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Saladin) - INTJ
Baybars - ESTJ
Gaius Marius - ESTJ
Carl XII of Sweden - INTJ
Joachim Murat (guy in my avatar) - XNTJ
Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte - ENTJ
Arthur Wellesley 1st Duke of Wellington - ENTJ


Total NT/SJ bias, dude. Come on, you know better! LOL! :doh:

I forgive you. :newwink:

YLJ said:
There is not a coincedence that the ENTJ is called the fieldmarshal.
Great field commanders are often ENTJs or ESTJs, the great, logical organizers.

They are also called other things. Your SJ and NJ examples will do great when things go according to plan, but from I can tell, war rarely does, and I'd wager that a good portion of the vioctors of any significant combat have just as much chance as being NP/SP, and NJ/SJ.

:woot:
 
S

Sniffles

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Concerning typology, you also have to take into account the difference between Strategic intelligence and Tactical intelligence and how that relates to military applications(strategy, tactics).
 

highlander

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To add:

Julius Caesar - ENTJ
Napoleon Bonaparte - ENTJ
Gebhard von Blücher - EXTJ
Georgy Zhukov - ENTJ
Robert E. Lee - ENTJ (him being pretty pious made him a bit milder than usual, but it's there)
George Washington - ESTJ
Sun Tzu - INTJ
William the Conqueror - ENTJ
Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Saladin) - INTJ
Baybars - ESTJ
Gaius Marius - ESTJ
Carl XII of Sweden - INTJ
Joachim Murat (guy in my avatar) - XNTJ
Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte - ENTJ
Arthur Wellesley 1st Duke of Wellington - ENTJ





There is not a coincedence that the ENTJ is called the fieldmarshal.
Great field commanders are often ENTJs or ESTJs, the great, logical organizers.

I don't dispute any of these as I don't know most of them, but where's the "P"?

SPs are excellent tactical leaders and I think it is likely that tactical leaders are found commonly in these roles in addition to the NT strategic leaders or SJ logistical leaders.

Edit: Washington was supposed to be an ESTJ. That much I've heard.
 

Edgar

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Bullshit. Bill Clinton never struck me as trying to find something better than what he managed to make happen, a penultimate failure of NFs. I think ESFP is more spot on for my favorite President. :yes:

Clinton once remarked "no one had as much fun being president as I did". The guy was all about having a good time. He never had that ENFP busybody "let's all be BFFs" vibe about him.
 

highlander

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Clinton once remarked "no one had as much fun being president as I did". The guy was all about having a good time. He never had that ENFP busybody "let's all be BFFs" vibe about him.
I just don't see it. He had that hand shaking, hugging, friendly personality and a way of making you feel like you were the only person in the room. The remarkable ability to inspire people and persuade. I compare him to Regan and he is much better in this way - clearly more enthusiasm. Anyway, I've know both ESFPs and ENFPs and he seems much more N than S.

My last two points are this:
- 92% of Rhodes Scholars were intuitive students. Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar
- an INTJ (Hilary) is more likely to be married to an ENFP than an ESFP. The ESFP would drive her crazy.

Source
Student Learning and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator
 

Speed Gavroche

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Clinton: ESFP, the best president ever to take a road trip with.

Alexander the Great: ENTP
Attila: ENTJ
Julius Caesar: ENTP
Vercingétorix: ESTJ

Zhukov: ESTP
Churchill: ESTP
Rommel: ISTP, dude, he was total introvert.
Patton: ESTP
Montgomery: ESTJ
De Gaulle: INTP
Eishenower: INTP
Tito: ISTP
 

wildcat

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Ok, so he lists Rommel as an ISTP along with Woody Allen (whom I deem to be INFP). In eigther case, there are no arguments :(
63 per cent correct.
Allen was not a cinematograph.
He was a writer. A very diligent one.
Allen planned ahead. Never worked on a whim.
A finicky person. A neurotic talker.
XNFJ.
 

ragashree

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ESTJ seems good for Montgomery, I'd go with it. He was famed for winning battles with his meticulous advance planning, and an operational rigidity once in battle which often obstructed his own side's progress. He was also a stickler for efficiency, notably outspoken, rigid in his opinions; and so lacking in political tact (Te on overdrive?) that he was often in conflict with his colleagues, and the government went to some trouble to keep his divisive personal views from becoming public, mounting what amounted to a gagging operation against him while he was in high office.

To add:

Julius Caesar - ENTJ
Napoleon Bonaparte - ENTJ
Gebhard von Blücher - EXTJ
Georgy Zhukov - ENTJ
Robert E. Lee - ENTJ (him being pretty pious made him a bit milder than usual, but it's there)
George Washington - ESTJ
Sun Tzu - INTJ
William the Conqueror - ENTJ
Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Saladin) - INTJ
Baybars - ESTJ
Gaius Marius - ESTJ
Carl XII of Sweden - INTJ
Joachim Murat (guy in my avatar) - XNTJ
Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte - ENTJ
Arthur Wellesley 1st Duke of Wellington - ENTJ

There is not a coincedence that the ENTJ is called the fieldmarshal.
Great field commanders are often ENTJs or ESTJs, the great, logical organizers.

YLJ, that post was unbelievable! I don't doubt there are a lot of -NTJ generals, but you seem to have decided almost every famous military commander in history must be one on the basis that NTJs tend to make good ones, and that since they are good they must therefore be NTJs, rather than looking at specific personal traits in each case.

To take one example, the person in your avatar, Murat, strikes me as a classic example of an ES_P. I would personally go with ESFP. He wasn't any kind of strategic planner, but a dashing, impetuous cavalry commander, extremely popular with his men, most notable for charging into battle, often with reckless abandon, and carrying all before him due to his vigorous, inspirational command, personal courage, and ability to quickly adapt to the needs of the moment. Murat's swiftness, courage, and unpredictability provided the perfect foil for Napoleon's grand strategic thinking. (Napoleon was probably indeed an -NTJ, I'm not so sure about the E bit though) He wasn't a sucessful grand commander himself when having to organise mixed forces, I don't believe he won a significant battle in his own right as king of Naples, and was decisively defeated at Tolentino by a weaker Austrian force.
 

Valiant

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They are also called other things. Your SJ and NJ examples will do great when things go according to plan, but from I can tell, war rarely does, and I'd wager that a good portion of the vioctors of any significant combat have just as much chance as being NP/SP, and NJ/SJ.

:woot:

You know, you didn't take into account that it's often the SPs that makes things go astray and plans fail :jew:

(Sorry, had to! :smile:)

No, but what i'm saying is that it's their role.
It's not my role, it's not ESTPs role, it's not INFPs role.
Most good commanders are ExTJs not least because they are structured.

Adaptation to very quick changes is usually more of a tactical scenario than a strategic one, and as such largely out of control for the general.
A general mostly does large scale planning, instructs his subordinates (who may be any type anyone may wish, different jobs require different skill sets).
It's the general's duty to have several plans in store, and detail changes for different parts of the scenario if something goes this way or that.
It's the general's duty to supply his troops and provide other supporting functions to those fighting, such as artillery, engineers, air strikes, drone attacks, cruise missiles etc.


I very much agree that the ultimate soldier would probably be an ESTP, because you guys seem to master the whole quick thinking/reaction and physical bit as well as being tough as nails quite generally.
ExTJs make great generals, though. Because they're structured as well as logical, not just either.
 

Valiant

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YLJ, that post was unbelievable! I don't doubt there are a lot of -NTJ generals, but you seem to have decided almost every famous military commander in history must be one on the basis that NTJs tend to make good ones, and that since they are good they must therefore be NTJs, rather than looking at specific personal traits in each case.

To take one example, the person in your avatar, Murat, strikes me as a classic example of an ES_P. I would personally go with ESFP. He wasn't any kind of strategic planner, but a dashing, impetuous cavalry commander, extremely popular with his men, most notable for charging into battle, often with reckless abandon, and carrying all before him due to his vigorous, inspirational command, personal courage, and ability to quickly adapt to the needs of the moment. Murat's swiftness, courage, and unpredictability provided the perfect foil for Napoleon's grand strategic thinking. (Napoleon was probably indeed an -NTJ, I'm not so sure about the E bit though) He wasn't a sucessful grand commander himself when having to organise mixed forces, I don't believe he won a significant battle in his own right as king of Naples, and was decisively defeated at Tolentino by a weaker Austrian force.


NTJs can be brave, too. If i'd be a general, i'd be a cavalry general, no doubt.
It's funny how some people think that brains and brawn cannot come together in the same package.

I know all about his physical bravado thing, but it's stupid to think an NTJ is not able to excel in sports and being popular with the men.
I agree that he was not a very good grand commander, but then again... Very few people out there can claim such a thing, NTJ, SFP or whatever they are.
Grand commanders are few and far between.
 

miss fortune

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You know, you didn't take into account that it's often the SPs that makes things go astray and plans fail :jew:

(Sorry, had to! :smile:)

No, but what i'm saying is that it's their role.
It's not my role, it's not ESTPs role, it's not INFPs role.
Most good commanders are ExTJs not least because they are structured.

Adaptation to very quick changes is usually more of a tactical scenario than a strategic one, and as such largely out of control for the general.
A general mostly does large scale planning, instructs his subordinates (who may be any type anyone may wish, different jobs require different skill sets).
It's the general's duty to have several plans in store, and detail changes for different parts of the scenario if something goes this way or that.
It's the general's duty to supply his troops and provide other supporting functions to those fighting, such as artillery, engineers, air strikes, drone attacks, cruise missiles etc.


I very much agree that the ultimate soldier would probably be an ESTP, because you guys seem to master the whole quick thinking/reaction and physical bit as well as being tough as nails quite generally.
ExTJs make great generals, though. Because they're structured as well as logical, not just either.

:thelook: you used to be cool.... :nono:

anyone who is a general has to prove themselves as adaptable and able to think quickly on their feet before they can get to those stages... things that ExTJs aren't particularly skilled at... and you've got to take into account that ANYONE can develop Te as well... I can use Te if I want to! It doesn't mean that I'm a Te user though :rolli:

You're being a bit close minded and obtuse :(
 

Valiant

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I'm just a bit bewildered that people can't seem to accept the assigned roles of each type.
Of course someone very talented can go outside of their natural confines.
That's not what I am saying, i'm just saying that EXTJs quite generally would make better generals.
Not because I am an EXTJ myself, I gave up that you know.

Why the Generalissimo-hysteria? It's way cooler to be soldier, NCO, colonel... Whatever, as long as they deal with tactics, not just the grand strategy.
The grand stuff is really boring. While it is important, it's not really action-oriented at all.
Colonels and Majors have all the fun, I tell you.
 

miss fortune

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no... the ISTP assasins have all of the fun :tongue:

I'm saying that you're being inflexible and close minded on people's abilities and functions... I've routinely beat xNTJs on Risk in the past :devil:
 

Litvyak

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Flavius Aetius, xxTJ?
Emperor Justinian, ENfJ?

history08.jpg

justinian-ravenna.jpg


Love them.
 

Weber

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It sounds reasonable to me that most famous generals (and perhaps generals altogether) have been EXTJs. Not all, but certainly a large percentage. They will tend to gravitate towards such professions.


no... the ISTP assasins have all of the fun :tongue:

I'm saying that you're being inflexible and close minded on people's abilities and functions... I've routinely beat xNTJs on Risk in the past :devil:

Bah, Risk has way too much luck involved. Try chess.
 
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