Sun Tzu

[GZA]

I've been reading some parts of Art of War, and I've been wondering what type he may have been. Any ideas?

I don't really have any theories, and I'm very sorry if this has been discussed.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

That's really tough, because he may not have even actually existed.
We don't much know about his ideas outside the field of war and a little politics.

If anything, he has to be an N, I say. One my feel an urge to say he's T, but an F might very well interest itself in the art of war. Again, I say that knowing nothing of Sun Tzu personally, severely hinders the question.

 

[Kiddo]

ENTJ

I mean...come on...it's the stereotypical evil overlord type. That type is all about conquest and power struggles. Throw in the elements of tradition and strategy and it's almost undeniable.

 

[GZA]

He doesn't sound that evil... I heard that he wanted to live in peace as much as possible, and he seems to often stress "defeating" your enemies using your intellect and breaking them without even attacking with weapons.

ENTJ still seems to make a lot of sense, but I think maybe he had a pretty good T/F mix and a pretty good P/J mix, because he often talks about boundless possibilities it seems.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

ENTJ

I mean...come on...it's the stereotypical evil overlord type. That type is all about conquest and power struggles. Throw in the elements of tradition and strategy and it's almost undeniable.

It is easily deniable. First of all, being so stereotypical is actually a bad sign. Those silly traits do not help when picking a type.

More importantly, kiddo, have you ever read Sun Tzu's work?
His first piece of advice is to avoid war, and if you fail that, his second is to avoid seige.
That, among other things, doesn't really make him sound like the conquesting, evil overlord you mention.

 

[Kiddo]

It is easily deniable. First of all, being so stereotypical is actually a bad sign. Those silly traits do not help when picking a type.

More importantly, kiddo, have you ever read Sun Tzu's work?
His first piece of advice is to avoid war, and if you fail that, his second is to avoid seige.
That, among other things, doesn't really make him sound like the conquesting, evil overlord you mention.

That is why I said "stereotypical". I was referring to the type, not Sun Tzu. ENTJs are masters of power struggles, and I'm sure part of that is knowing when not to go to war, but they know how to win when they do. I've read the Art of War, and I am no less inclined to believe he wasn't ENTJ.

 

[ygolo]

I've been reading some parts of Art of War, and I've been wondering what type he may have been. Any ideas?

I don't really have any theories, and I'm very sorry if this has been discussed.

I have always thought of Sun-Tzu as an INTJ/ISTP mix. There are a lot of similarities between the two types. It is hard to tell a person's type from their philosophy, however.

Other than the principle of attacking when you have the advantage (even in peace-time, was my interpretation), most of the "Art-of-war" was pacifist (ironically).

It is mainly about conserving your resources (especially human resources). With the exception of putting people on "loosing ground" to have them fight their hardest to survive. My interpretation was that this was only to be done when situations seem hopeless otherwise.

Battles are won in the war-room, according to him, before any actual fighting has occurred. If you can help it, only fight battles you know you will win.

Seems very "Chart-the-Course". But frankly, it is simply the right thing to do in war-time, so anyone competent would suggest it.

I haven't read a bio. So this is just my prejudice.

INTJ or ISTP.

 

[Ezra]

I think the people who say ENTJ are right, or at least close to it. Dichotomically, I could easily see him as an INTJ; a strategist.

However, functionally, Te is most evident to me. His desire to work with the geography in order to achieve maximum effectiveness in battle is textbook Te. Then you have his clear ability to strategise well and figure out the ways in which things work, which points towards Ni.

 

[Xander]

INTJ.
Oh and the guy was definitely no pacifist. The whole "I can make anyone fight" thing...definitely a bit tapped in the head if you ask me.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I think INTJ. The strategies in "The Art of War" are often very indirect, not really hands on a lot of the time. Most of "The Art of War" is about how to win the war before the fighting even starts. I think Sun Tsu was more of a behind-the-scenes, hands-off strategist that was willing to get his hands dirty when necessary. That describes an INTJ fairly well.

 

[white]

That's really tough, because he may not have even actually existed.
We don't much know about his ideas outside the field of war and a little politics.

If anything, he has to be an N, I say. One my feel an urge to say he's T, but an F might very well interest itself in the art of war. Again, I say that knowing nothing of Sun Tzu personally, severely hinders the question.

# He was real. Perhaps it is hard to gain a view of his personality type if you're just reading the strategies. But this could help:

He was born during the Spring Autumn period, into a noble family, one of his ancestors was a prince of the state of Chen. His family settled into the state of Qi, but in a non-political role (handicraft industry minister), to prevent any opposition. The political astuteness seems to have ran in the blood.

In Chinese history, the Spring Autumn period was a time of drastic social, economic changes; frequent military and cultural upheavals, as China was not united under one emperor then - It was divided into kingdoms/states, giving rise to complex political situations.

His family grew into power, and owing to the influence of his family and the times then, he was interested in military activities since his childhood, and studied to become a strategist from a young age, actually. He was a product of his time, simply.

He moved to the State of Wu to realise his ambitions of becoming a strategist, and mixed with several scholars and strategists to learn, following developments closely.

He was subsequently introduced to the ruler of the State of Wu at the recommendation of a friend. He had several friends in high places.

Contrary to what The Liquid Laser said, he led battles actually. All of his strategies were refined from his experiences on actual ground.

--> all of these points Ne to me.

re GZA on peace: His mindset was that peace could only come if you were strong enough to win a war.

He was a strategist first and foremost - the avoidance of bloodshed was a question of the utilisation of resources, simply. If you could win a war by simpler means, subterfuge, you'd do it, because bloodshed carries a higher cost, in terms of moral of the people, cost of training troops, feeding them, vs for e.g. marrying to form an alliance.

Tellingly, his life did not end on the battlefield. He quit while he was ahead - he retired from politics in great success when his overlord became more caught up in waging wars and politicking. Some would argue that was the most brilliant move of all.

I'd say he was never interested in becoming king. His choice was to be the power behind the throne.

- based on the above, I'd have guessed Ne, Ti.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Contrary to what The Liquid Laser said, he led battles actually. All of his strategies were refined from his experiences on actual ground.

I never said that he didn't fight (quite the opposite in fact). What I said is that the "Art of War" focuses more on what to do before the battle starts. It talks about how to win the battle before any blood has even been shed. I think all of this preparation, maneuvering, and subterfuge is indicative of the INTJ mind more than any other.

 

[ENTP-Guy]

xSTP... He had to much balls to be an INTJ, my perspective of INTJs IRL are basically: Chicken web shits who don't dare say shit irl because they just hit anything around them and are quiet. On the internet: "I'M THE OVERLORD, I CAN SEE EVRIMOVE COME AT ME".
Please...
Sun Tzu was quite aware of his surroundings, he was very intact with it. It's just wether he was an ISTP like Miyamoto Musashi...

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The game of chess is like a swordfight.