Firefly characters

[uumlau]

He is sociable as fuck, and he isn't any sort of S. He displays a very consistent knack for foresight, improvisation and originality. I'd sooner guess ENTJ than ISTJ, but he really isn't a Judger, as for all his foresight he has no grand vision. As he himself said in Serenity, he "ain't got no rudder. Wind blows Northerly, [he goes] North." He doesn't plan more than a few hours in advance.

So, no, ISTJ is even more off the mark than ISTP.

I don't see him as very sociable. He seems rather socially awkward, among his crew, among business companions. He puts up a "business only" air.

One additional note: Mal gives off bossy and decisive J vibes, but that's not how the character was written. Mal appears bossy because Mal is played by Nathan Fillion, who is an ENTJ and completely incapable of playing anyone other than Nathan Fillion. You might notice that, in conflict to Fillion's directive aura, Mal lets things slide instantly.

I see things entirely the opposite.

Are there interviews with Nathan Filion that show the ENTJ thing you can point me to? In the interviews I've seen I can't believe the contrast between the characters he plays and the almost girly man in the interviews.

Agreed.

I think Captain Reynolds is an ISTJ, personally. He always reminded me of my ISTJ roommate.

Possibly ISTJ. He has a practical approach to problems that feels very Si at times. However, given his flexibility in terms of how to approach problems, Si isn't as strong a possibility to me.


Typing Mal is difficult, for a few reasons.

1. Joss Whedon is a good writer, but he writes Fe characters way better than Te ones.
2. The actors on any show will allow some of their own mannerisms and personality to shine through, often indicating a demeanor that doesn't square with the depicted type.
3. Story writers don't generally write with MBTI type consistency in mind. They're more concerned with with making characters interesting than believable.

The main thing I get out of Mal from watching the show is a strong Te-style character, who makes decisions in a very Te way, who apparently thinks in a very Te way, but is played by someone who appears to me to be very Fe/Ti. It's as if Fillion has to try hard to be a stern captain at times.

I could see Mal as any of the following types:

ENTJ - ENTJs aren't necessarily very social, more concerned with organizing people (Te) than getting to know them personally (Fe). The intuition helps explain how his plans anticipate enemy actions so well.
INTJ - Not as likely as ENTJ, but he could just be a crusty INTJ stuck in a leadership position that he doesn't want, but for which he feels responsible (strong Fi values). He doesn't seem to be as lost in thought as an INTJ would be, however.
ENTP - Joss ends up writing some humor into the character that really doesn't fit the Te mold. The P fits the more adventurous nature of the character, and I think Fillion may very well be ENTP (not ENTJ as suggested elsewhere). I don't quite accept this in terms of the big picture, though. Even though he is often stuck in awkward adventurous positions, he doesn't particularly want to be in them. He does not want to rely on luck.
xSTJ - I won't deny the possibility of STJ, but the intuitive insight displayed by his character, especially in formulating plans, doesn't seem characteristic.

All of these, of course, need to be taken with a grain of salt. There is no real underlying personality with real cognitive functions beneath it all.

What I notice in the series is that Mal is written as a very "alpha" Te person. He does not use Fe-style management techniques to handle his crew. He is not particularly socially graceful, as an ENTP would eventually become at that age. He has kind of a trust-but-verify approach to handling his enemies, willing to stick to the terms of a deal until it is evident that the terms are broken. He doesn't seem particularly upset when he is double-crossed, but rather figures out how to recover from it. He doesn't chase down enemies, he ignores them as much as he can. He doesn't try to get even with enemies, and except for starting a brawl with Alliance soldiers in one episode, doesn't appear to want to settle a score. Rather than have a huge battle to protect the whorehouse in one episode, his first instinct is to take everyone off planet and avoid the fight entirely. In his epic battle with Niska, Mal humorously declares his lack of interest in finishing it all on his own. These are all Te approaches to me. His objection does not seem to be that things aren't worth fighting for, but that fights can go wrong, thus it is best to avoid a fight.

There are some indications of ExTP over ExTJ, namely that Mal doesn't appear to have a long term plan. I suspect that's more a matter of circumstance than design. It is, after all, and adventure story, and adventurers don't often have much time to formulate long term plans; it's often more a matter of surviving through each episode. In terms of his approach to daily matters, in terms of his approach to discipline on the ship, he is very TJ.

 

[Aleksei]

ENTJ - ENTJs aren't necessarily very social, more concerned with organizing people (Te) than getting to know them personally (Fe). The intuition helps explain how his plans anticipate enemy actions so well.
INTJ - Not as likely as ENTJ, but he could just be a crusty INTJ stuck in a leadership position that he doesn't want, but for which he feels responsible (strong Fi values). He doesn't seem to be as lost in thought as an INTJ would be, however.

He's fairly good at anticipating enemy actions, but his foresight only reaches so far, and it's of a rather broad nature -- Ne rather than Ni. He very rarely thinks or plans more than a few hours in advance, and he's extremely adaptable; moreso than an NTJ would be.

ENTP - Joss ends up writing some humor into the character that really doesn't fit the Te mold. The P fits the more adventurous nature of the character, and I think Fillion may very well be ENTP (not ENTJ as suggested elsewhere). I don't quite accept this in terms of the big picture, though. Even though he is often stuck in awkward adventurous positions, he doesn't particularly want to be in them. He does not want to rely on luck.

O rly? A little excerpt from The Train job:

Zoë: Sir, is there some information, we might maybe be lacking, as to why there's an entire fedsquad sitting on this train?
Mal: It doesn't concern us.
Zoë: It kinda concerns me.
Mal: I mean they're not protecting the goods. If they were, they wouldn't be letting people past 'em.
Zoë: You don't think that changes the situation a bit?
Mal: I surely do. Makes it more fun.
Zoë: Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing.
Mal: Come on. We stick to the plan, we get the goods, we're back on Serenity before the train even reaches Paradiso, only now we do it under the noses of twenty trained Alliance feds and that makes them look all manner of stupid. Hell, this job, I would pull for free.

What I notice in the series is that Mal is written as a very "alpha" Te person. He does not use Fe-style management techniques to handle his crew. He is not particularly socially graceful, as an ENTP would eventually become at that age. He has kind of a trust-but-verify approach to handling his enemies, willing to stick to the terms of a deal until it is evident that the terms are broken. He doesn't seem particularly upset when he is double-crossed, but rather figures out how to recover from it. He doesn't chase down enemies, he ignores them as much as he can. He doesn't try to get even with enemies, and except for starting a brawl with Alliance soldiers in one episode, doesn't appear to want to settle a score. Rather than have a huge battle to protect the whorehouse in one episode, his first instinct is to take everyone off planet and avoid the fight entirely. In his epic battle with Niska, Mal humorously declares his lack of interest in finishing it all on his own. These are all Te approaches to me. His objection does not seem to be that things aren't worth fighting for, but that fights can go wrong, thus it is best to avoid a fight.

I have absolutely no idea how not wanting payback would be ENTP in nature. If anything vindictiveness is Fi to the core, and a lack thereof indicates the absence of it. In fact, I'm not sure how any of this indicates Te over Ti use.

 

[Aleksei]

I think Captain Reynolds is an ISTJ, personally. He always reminded me of my ISTJ roommate.

Nah, he's just a bit stuffy like Calvin's dad (another ENTP). It's a rare sight to see an ISTJ who would do something like tell Simon Kaylee was dead in the first episode, for lulz. On the otehr hand, ENTPs do that shit all the time.

I think INFJ/INFP is more fitting for Inara. Remember, INFJ is another of those introverted types that come off extroverted simply because they are good with people.

She's some kind of NFJ given how much foresight she shows. It's unclear whether she's an introvert or just avoiding Mal (see how good a time she was having in Shindig).

I'm not sure about Jayne.... he doesn't seem smart enough to be a thinker... though I'd hate to put him in the ISFP group with me. Haha.

One, it's bad form to type people based on their intelligence. Even though some studies show a correlation between type and intelligence (which should still be taken with a grain of salt anyway), intelligence is still distributed along a bell curve in relation to type, meaning people of any type could still have any given IQ; especially fictional characters. Two, even then the correlation found between Thinking and intelligence is very weak. According to studies made on the subject, ISTP is actually ranked fourth from the bottom for median IQ.

Kaylee is ISFP or ISTP like to me. Quiet, reserved, but bubbly and good with her hands.

Kaylee is somewhat quiet, but she's no introvert, as evidenced by the sheer delight she showed at being surrounded by people in Shindig. She's more like me, in that sense.

River Tam-yes, a disturbed INTP or an INTJ.

INTP. The girl is Ti-dominant to the bone.

Simon... hrm... Introvert... but the s/n is a little hard to pick out in him. He's smart... but caring... so is he more rational or emotional? I think he's definitely a J. I think he might be either an INFJ/INFP.

He's an INTJ. He's an extremely skilled strategist (remember Ariel), and he cares deeply for her sister, and for her sister only (and later for Kaylee, as he developed feelings for her). Notice he threatened to leave Kaylee to die if the crew called the Alliance on him in the first episode. He does show compassion towards the other crew members when his sister wasn't in jeopardy, but he didn't much care for innocent bystanders, and he would put her above anyone else -- tertiary Fi at work.

Hoban might very well be the only extrovert. ESTP?

Wash is rather obviously ENFP. He's rather emotional and not really fond of conflict (Fi), his entire piloting style relies on original improvisation to see what works (Ne), and his tertiary Te came out in Ariel, being the first to pipe up to point out any possible flaws in Simon's plan (which Simon, being Te-auxiliary himself, had already long since ironed out).

 

[uumlau]

I have absolutely no idea how not wanting payback would be ENTP in nature. If anything vindictiveness is Fi to the core, and a lack thereof indicates the absence of it. In fact, I'm not sure how any of this indicates Te over Ti use.

Fi can be anger, or outrage. But Fe wants "justice." Te will fight for power, and might exterminate an enemy. Fe wants to humiliate the enemy.

It is not that xNTJ never has feelings of vengeance, but tactically, logistically, vengeance is not an objective goal. Staying alive is a goal. Getting the money is a goal. Completing the job is a goal. Fe will want to get even. Vengeance is a reasonable, subjective logistical goal. The way Mal organizes and makes choices is Te, to me. Te wants to get the job done and over with. Mal very often makes decisions to resolve things quickly, but is usually frustrated by enemies who prefer to do things the hard way. If Mal got his way most of the time, the series would be very boring.

That said, your dialog w/r to the train job, yes, does indicate more of a TP vibe: playful, wanting to humiliate the Alliance, definitely a tertiary Fe kind of thing. However, I think that only happens for the alliance (he also starts that brawl, remember). Everyone has their sore spots. And still, he didn't want to have the pleasure of killing the guy who tortured him and Wash.

So, he might be an ENTP under stress, putting on that Te vibe to give orders, but I don't quite think so.

And, to be clear, it's really hard to make the call either way, because in MBTI terms, he isn't written and played as consistently as one would need to determine a real MBTI.

 

[Aleksei]

One more thing that I missed: He may not have an Fe style of leadership, but he does display a consistent undecurrent of weak, semi-dysfunctional (certainly tertiary) Fe. He's constantly playing the hero even when it puts his crew at risk (despite keeping his crew safe being a deep-seated value of his -- their safety would thus always come first were he an Fi user); like when he returned the cargo in the Train Job despite knowing full well what Niska would do to him (or perhaps actually not having thought of it -- which would constitute failure to Ni), or when he didn't hesitate to help Inara's whore friends in Heart of Gold.

 

[uumlau]

One more thing that I missed: He may not have an Fe style of leadership, but he does display a consistent undecurrent of weak, semi-dysfunctional (certainly tertiary) Fe. He's constantly playing the hero even when it puts his crew at risk (despite keeping his crew safe being a deep-seated value of his -- their safety would thus always come first were he an Fi user); like when he returned the cargo in the Train Job despite knowing full well what Niska would do to him (or perhaps actually not having thought of it -- which would constitute failure to Ni), or when he didn't hesitate to help Inara's whore friends in Heart of Gold.

To characterize either of that as more Fe or Fi doesn't seem appropriate, to me. It could be Fe, in that he is moved to be the good guy by peer pressure or wanting to look the hero, or perhaps it's a previously well-formed Fe-value. Or it could be Fi, in that he couldn't live with himself if he took the medical supplies from those who really needed them. Either way, he knew it was the right thing to do. Either way, he knew he was endangering his crew.Also note his negotiation tactics in that scene: he states his terms, only to be rebuffed. Rather than spend time manipulating or torturing to get compliance, he kills the one guy and turns to the next. The next guy, seeing that he's totally serious, complies. This is Te-style bullying, not Fe.

Similarly in the Heart of Gold case, as I mentioned before, he initially suggests retreat. Moral dilemmas are not good for determining type. The better arbiter is one's first instinct, which in this case is everyone's safety, the least amount of harm, the most reliable logistical solution. He is well aware of the cost of a fight, but as much as Fi values would value his crew's safety, Fi also has moral values and will stand up and fight, if pressed. In this case, he was pressed.

 

[Aleksei]

Fe isn't just externally-derived values or ethics (as you seem to think), but empathy; innate concern for others. Thus being moved to save his fellow man, even in spite of himself or his own values, is Fe to the core.

 

[Kalach]

Captain Malcolm Reynolds - ISTJ
Zoe Alleyne Washbourne - ISTJ
Hoban Washbourne - comedy ISFP
Inara Serra - INFJ tenant
Jayne Cobb - comedy ISTP
Kaywinnit Lee Fry - sleepy ESFP
Dr. Simon Tam - ISFJ
River Tam - ????
Shepherd Derrial Book - ????


Next person who says Simon is INTJ gets the "This is not a Typology site" award. That man displays no global thinking. Patterns, particularly the screamingly obvious pattern clues constantly uttered by his sister, can stare him right in the face and he will stare back slack-jawed, holding on for some further opportunity to be obsequiously snotty or suffocatingly caring.


Just for fun I'd almost go INFJ for River because while she was annoyed by the Bible, she also can kill you with her brain and no force in the verse can stop her, and other than those direct "personal" utterances, she talks in fragments that indicate a complex, unseen-by-others whole. If you strip an INTP's amygdala, do you get an INFJ? Maybe an INFJ+INTP hybrid.



(Haven't seen the last two episodes or the movie yet so no opinion on Book.)

 

[Aleksei]

Captain Malcolm Reynolds - ISTJ

Mal isn't an introvert, and he very obviously has very little Si, if any at all. His mode of operation is 100% improvisational. Typing him as ENTJ is forgivable (but wrong), but typing him as ISTJ is not.

EDIT: I mean seriously, would an Si-dom ever, and I mean ever say shit like this?

Zoë: Sir, is there some information, we might maybe be lacking, as to why there's an entire fedsquad sitting on this train?
Mal: It doesn't concern us.
Zoë: It kinda concerns me.
Mal: I mean they're not protecting the goods. If they were, they wouldn't be letting people past 'em.
Zoë: You don't think that changes the situation a bit?
Mal: I surely do. Makes it more fun.
Zoë: Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing.
Mal: Come on. We stick to the plan, we get the goods, we're back on Serenity before the train even reaches Paradiso, only now we do it under the noses of twenty trained Alliance feds and that makes them look all manner of stupid. Hell, this job, I would pull for free.

Bendis: We're gonna die.
Mal: We are not gonna die. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die. Huh? Look at that chiseled jaw!

I mean seriously, EVER?

Hoban Washbourne - comedy ISFP

Again, improvisation galore. Wash is actually much more obviously Ne-dominant than Mal is.

Next person who says Simon is INTJ gets the "This is not a Typology site" award. That man displays no global thinking. Patterns, particularly the screamingly obvious pattern clues constantly uttered by his sister, can stare him right in the face and he will stare back slack-jawed, holding on for some further opportunity to be obsequiously snotty or suffocatingly caring.

That would be because he lacks any Ne whatsoever. His Ni, however, is displayed full force in Ariel, where he pretty much became Michael fucking Corleone.

 

[miss fortune]

you can improvise with Se as well... you can really be an ass sometimes when it comes to overlooking the abilities of other functions, A :rolli:

 

[Resonance]

"And we will call it...this land..."

^ picture-perfect example of relying waaaaaaay too much on Ne.

Mal could be ESTP. Definitely P, definitely E, probably T.

River and Simon are the classic INTP/INTJ dichotomy, as kids. As adults, it's even more so... Simon might seem S or F but that's what decades of schooling does to INTJs. River's uncontrollable emotions are more indicative of underdeveloped (or rather, damaged) F than of F preference.

Patterns, particularly the screamingly obvious pattern clues constantly uttered by his sister, can stare him right in the face and he will stare back slack-jawed, holding on for some further opportunity to be obsequiously snotty or suffocatingly caring.

Ironic that this pattern is staring you in the face and you're not seeing it

 

[miss fortune]

"And we will call it...this land..."

^ picture-perfect example of relying waaaaaaay too much on Ne.

hey... I suck enough at naming things that the dog got named after the first song on the radio after picking him up

 

[Benny]

Mal isn't an introvert, and he very obviously has very little Si, if any at all. His mode of operation is 100% improvisational. Typing him as ENTJ is forgivable (but wrong), but typing him as ISTJ is not.

EDIT: I mean seriously, would an Si-dom ever, and I mean ever say shit like this?




I mean seriously, EVER?


Again, improvisation galore. Wash is actually much more obviously Ne-dominant than Mal is.


That would be because he lacks any Ne whatsoever. His Ni, however, is displayed full force in Ariel, where he pretty much became Michael fucking Corleone.

An ENTP wouldn't say that shit. Have you ever met an ENTP? Mal is NOT AN ENTP.

 

[Aleksei]

An ENTP wouldn't say that shit.

An ENTP wouldn't say something as random as "we can't die because we're so pretty"? Have you ever met one?

 

[Resonance]

hey... I suck enough at naming things that the dog got named after the first song on the radio after picking him up

But would you play with toy dinosaurs, making up a scenario, on the control panel of the spaceship you're supposed to be piloting >.>

 

[miss fortune]

I don't have toy dinosaurs

I used to consider shopping cart jousting with salamis to be a proper sport though

because that sounds much better than my OTHER hobby... deepthroating a dildo at red lights to see what people in other cars would do...

 

[Kalach]

River and Simon are the classic INTP/INTJ dichotomy, as kids. As adults, it's even more so... Simon might seem S or F but that's what decades of schooling does to INTJs.

Projection.


INTJs--now more slavishly devoted to INTPs than ever before.

 

[Aleksei]

She was his sister. INTJs are not robots.

 

[Kalach]

An INTJ would enlist her cooperation in her cure. He'd demand it, even. And grow ever more weary of her issues as solution after solution failed.

So he'd listen to her when she spoke, because she's the only one who offers clues above and beyond what physical symptoms she presents, and eventually INTJ doctor-brother would craft some response around all the damn clues she keeps tossing at him. Simon, by contrast, more or less just instructs her to not have bad thoughts.

Dr. Simon Tam: But I think when they triggered you, it somehow brought this up. This memory.
River Tam: It isn't mine. The memory, it isn't mine. And I shouldn't have to carry it. It isn't mine. Don't make me sleep again.
Dr. Simon Tam: I won't. I won't.
River Tam: Put a bullet to me. Bullet in the brain pan. Squish.
Dr. Simon Tam: Don't say that! Not ever. We'll get through this.
River Tam: Things are going to get much, much worse.

There's an INTJ brother doctor alive who isn't interested in where the memory came from? He'd track down such things looking for probable origins... and that'd be Ni and Te working together. As opposed say to extraverted feeling.

And there's INTJ doctor-brothers out there who don't follow up nutty sisters' prophecy statements?


And so on. But no, Simon cleaves to his sister almost as much as Mal follows military and seafaring traditions of captaincy.

 

[Aleksei]

Mal follows... what now?

EDIT: Now that I stopped laughing, I can address the rest of your dumb as shit post.

An INTJ would enlist her cooperation in her cure. He'd demand it, even. And grow ever more weary of her issues as solution after solution failed.

INTJs are Fi. Enlisting cooperation would be more Fe, no? Besides, as I said before she is his fucking sister. Defending your sister falls under the auspices of Fi. NTJs are not entirely heartless fuckheads - maybe you are, but your sociopathy is the exception, not the rule.

So he'd listen to her when she spoke, because she's the only one who offers clues above and beyond what physical symptoms she presents, and eventually INTJ doctor-brother would craft some response around all the damn clues she keeps tossing at him. Simon, by contrast, more or less just instructs her to not have bad thoughts.

Wrong. What you are describing is, indeed, Fe. Simon just orders her, thinking he can handle this on his own. He's using Te and Fi.

There's an INTJ brother doctor alive who isn't interested in where the memory came from?

Ni-Te is not concerned with knowing everything about everything, so much as producing strategies and plans, refining them and implementing them; INTJs are not necessarily that inquisitive. That would fall more under the auspices of Ti.

And there's INTJ doctor-brothers out there who don't follow up nutty sisters' prophecy statements?

Sure. Would you notice that your sister is a prophet, if she started rattling off about hands of blue and the rate at which human blood can be drained? I mean I can't speak for you, but most people, INTJs included, would view her as a schizophrenic. The most likely types to actually take notice of her supernatural capabilities would be those with a strong Ne (ENTP, ENFP, INTP, and INFP), noticing and uniting patterns being one of the key aspects of Ne. Even most of these, however, would view her as simply brain-damaged and schizophrenic.

...almost as much as Mal follows military and seafaring traditions of captaincy.

Sorry, but this point just... fucking LOL! :yim_rolling_on_the_