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INTJ "Intelligent" Myth

Poki

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Is this a slumber party? Watch out for the ESFP shadows!!!

hefnerG150307_468x544.jpg

Only for inferior perceptive people. Gotta think "true";) or should I say not "fake":rofl1:

Edit: No I have nothing against these people, as long as they are not just trying to put on an image. Its one thing to enjoy it, its another to do it just for image.
 

miss fortune

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One day I will learn how to giggle and frolick like a woman. Cant decide if its better to watch the forest that is girls giggling and frolicking or just be able to watch single trees while being part of the forest giggling and frolicking. The hard decisions we must make in life.

edit: Now that my mind brought in ISTJ sloppy melted ice cubes. AAAAHHHHHHHHHH why are lifes decisions so hard.

now YOU could get away with taking the manly solution of sitting in a lawn chair and trying to look grumpy... then ALL the girls will come to you! :holy: (my attempt at a "best of all worlds solution")... you may even have a bucket of ice cubes for extra fun! :yes:

Hahahahahahah!

Actually, I'd probably walk (not run) around barefoot in the back yard, sans giggling. The presence of the bubble solution depends on whether I think anyone will see me. :blush:

ENFPs have much the same brainpower, really: it's just that they prefer show the giggling-bubble-solution side to the world.

This is why people need tall fences for their backyards... and time home alone... then you don't get stared at like a crazy person when you go on a bubble solution rampage! :holy:

And for real fun on that you could say that INFJs have all the same functions as I do, they just use them differently (and probably would ALSO want to giggle barefoot in the yard :doh:)
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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Is this a slumber party? Watch out for the ESFP shadows!!!

hefnerG150307_468x544.jpg

No no. ESFP was for April Fools. Now my type is back to normal.
 

Poki

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now YOU could get away with taking the manly solution of sitting in a lawn chair and trying to look grumpy... then ALL the girls will come to you! :holy: (my attempt at a "best of all worlds solution")... you may even have a bucket of ice cubes for extra fun! :yes:

Yeah, but that would only work with people that dont know me. Its to much work to hold up that grumpy manly facade. I cant pull of serious looks without people laughing, especially if I make it real convincing. You should see me and my ESTP niece stare each other down with dirty looks. Its like a competition:doh: I usually give up and she wins, then I throw something at her or knock her over.
 

miss fortune

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Yeah, but that would only work with people that dont know me. Its to much work to hold up that grumpy manly facade. I cant pull of serious looks without people laughing, especially if I make it real convincing. You should see me and my ESTP niece stare each other down with dirty looks. Its like a competition:doh: I usually give up and she wins, then I throw something at her or knock her over.

I can't even keep a grumpy expression on my face when I AM grumpy... once someone points it out I can't help but to giggle :doh:

however, if it's a competition, I WILL WIN :cheese: Even if it's against my ENFJ sis...
 

miss fortune

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never trust a self reported test... especially when taken by a politician :thelook:
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
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I bet you if you lived in Hiroshima or Nagasaki around January of 1946, you'd disagree.

Hey, Onemoretime!

Good thing you showed up to say something totally irrelevant (and that I and everyone else could care less about)!

I don't think what he mentioned was irrelevant, and I actually do care about it.

Albert Einstein and the Atomic Bomb

In November 1954, five months before his death, Einstein summarized his feelings about his role in the creation of the atomic bomb: "I made one great mistake in my life... when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was some justification - the danger that the Germans would make them

One must define intelligence.

And, I, for one, agree with Howard Gardner regarding the idea of Multiple Intelligences. :)

Not for any PC reason, but through my own personal observations.

Though, I have to say, Einstein was one smart mofo, through and through.

Brilliant, innovative and wise.

The holy trinity of Intelligence, if you ask me.

:D
 

Blackmail!

Gotta catch you all!
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Well, it seems the main issue remains to define intelligence.
And it can't be that simple, since intelligence is supposed to specifically define man as a specie: hence, the definition is bound to be more or less circular, somehow.

Etymologically, Inte-ligare means to "bind together" (or "Inte-legere": to read between). It would be the aptitude to bind together elements that would have been neglected otherwise.
Neurologically, intelligence is simply a byproduct of brain activity. It could be theorized as the difference between input (senses and fixed memory), and the resulting output.

It's quite obvious that IQ tests don't measure or match either definitions. Their respective contexts are too specific to generalize anything about adaptation, and abstract reasoning is not necessarily the only way to "bind elements together".
By the way, Ab-strudere (->Abstract) means "to simplify", and sometimes, "to take (something) out of context", depending on the tense you use in latin.
A simple child's drawing of a man is already a complex abstraction, far more than a realistic portrait. Does that mean the child is "more intelligent" than say... Velazquez or Vermeer?

---

As SolitaryWalker already assumed, there is absolutely no way an IQ test could predict outstanding achievements made by a man during his life, whether as an artist, an engineer or a scientist (or whatever). Because those specific achievements are considered to be the real proof of intelligence, far beyond any test the subject will pass.
For instance, if here we read that Einstein was considered to be the epitome of an intelligent man, it's because he was able to refine the theory of general relativity, and NOT because he had the opportunity to pass the slightest IQ test during his lifetime. People who consider he should have had a high IQ score only do it retrospectively, and this is a tremendous methodological mistake, besides the fact they invert causes and consequences, and thus make self-fulfilling prophecies. As a matter of fact, Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton never passed any IQ test. People who estimate their IQs are not only deluding themselves, they are dishonest epistemologically speaking.

And for the reverse scenario, look for instance at Chris Langan: this guy has achieved nothing during his existence, and his CTMU theory is full of odd metaphysical hocus-pocus and similar ignorant approximations. Thus, according to what I know and what I've read of him, I'd say I do not consider him to be very intelligent. Not at all: I pity him.

---

Now look at the test itself. Like I said, what's really puzzling is the fact you can train yourself to pass it, and thus, gets far higher scores after a while. The goal is to understand the purpose of the questions asked, to systematize them. There exists only a limited kind of combinations made by numbers or simplified graphic figures. There exists only a limited number of "IQ test games" and presentations. And once you are trained to recognize every category of combination, then you will quickly understand what the test asks.
It's not intelligence, it's a repetitive technique.
Why do you score higher? Because you're trained exactly like Pavlov's dog, and know how to anticipate every possible answer.

Most people who pass IQ tests lose time because they don't understand the question, or because understanding it requires (at least for them) a great effort in abstractive reasoning, especially because such abstractions aren't natural nor familiar to most of us.
But people who know how to efficiently pass IQ tests (trust my experience! :harhar:), on the other hand, use only a tiny fragment of their brains: they simplify every possible context to its maximum. Yes: the idea is to think less to become more effective, to become quicker. You have to put your mind at rest, and think to nothing, just like an automaton. The goal is not to understand questions, but to reduce them to simple, repetitive parameters. This way, you can approximate the right answer even without understanding the question at all.

So, it's absurd!

A man with a high IQ is not at all trained to face complex, REAL situations of everyday ordinary life. And the part of the brain he has to use is totally irrelevant if he's an artist, or even if he has to write a serious scientific essay (complex multifactorial scenarios, not simplified ones).

IQ tests only show us how a tiny portion of what the brain could perform, especially within people who are able to temporarily "shut down" every other area. No wonder some very high IQs actually suffer from brain damage: such damage may in fact eases their task. If most of the time they become tragic failures in real life, it's not because they're too brilliant to be really understood by mere mortals, it's rather because by ordinary standards, they're morons, or mentally handicapped if you prefer. They're tragically unable to understand or postulate complex multifactorial situations where every lobe of their brains has to be simultaneously activated and works together: it's too hard for them, since they can't separate intermingled cognitive components to unique simplified abstractions.

On the contrary, if ever someday we should be able to measure or define intelligence, it will be either as a global cortex activity (neurologically; for instance the way different areas of our brain interact and thus create new circuits/segregation process/pruning of neurons, and possibly result in decipherable λ-calculus expressions), or either as tangible results we can achieve (empiric definition) in our respective domains of activity.
But either ways, g-factor or IQ tests have nothing to do with this: their scales are far too narrow, too restricted, limited and subjective to be anything but convincing. Basically, it's a meaningless waste of time, not even worth the paper it is written upon!
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
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Intelligence= the ability to solve simple and complex problems and to understand and process information.

Please stop with the overly liberal non-sense.We all know essentially what intelligence means, I assume now you're going to get into a long drawn out speech ultimately leading to the conclusion that i.q. is meaningless and everyone is equally intelligent in their own way, no?That is a nice notion and allows everyone to feel good about themselves but it is not at all accurate.

I.q tests are not perfect, and i realize this, their are things like cultural biases and poverty to take into account, but chances are if your a white individual that was raised in a middle to upper class family then your i.q. is for the most part an accurate representation of your intelligence.
Question does not precede the answer.
It is second hand.

IQ tests proclaim a measure is beyond the scope of the measure.
An above average chess player does not anticipate the move of a good chess player.

Answer is the lead of the question.
Scope does not measure.

Imagination has a place.
Only when it is subject to reason.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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And not to be too INTJish or anything, but that sentence would've worked WAY better if you'd used "everybody" instead of "everyone".

:cheese:

I used the word with intention; perhaps reflection on the "why" is in order ;)
 

RaptorWizard

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The answer as to why INTJs are so intelligent, more so than any other type is simple. They are the masterminds, and the rest of us are the sheeple.
 
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