• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

INTJ "Intelligent" Myth

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
So it really isn't selfishness, on the part of Ti or Fi. Selfishness is solely an issue of maturity, and this forum in particular has a bad habit of blaming immature behavior on types.
Thank you!!!

:worthy:

A recipe for Selfishness: Immaturity, insecurity with a dash of Alexithymia and a splash of solipsism

:D
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Cuddling is good for the soul. It's science! btw, edited above post if you care to respond to the latter section.

I'm awake at 1 in the morning cuz I'm supposed to be finishing a database, not arguing. Another time, broseph.

Well, okay, but wouldn't differing perceptions of selfishness + the fact that neither is objectively correct imply that perception of selfishness is relative?

Exactly. Note the perception part of your (re)statement.

Perception of selfishness is relative. Not selfishness.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Ok, just caught up. What would constitute objective, non-relative selfishness?

Sim, we both know you're smart enough to come up with that answer on your own.

Here, I promise this much: I'll have an Fe cuddlefest with you if you do...

:doh:
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I'm awake at 1 in the morning cuz I'm supposed to be finishing a database, not arguing. Another time, broseph.

I'm awake at 4 in the morning cause I'm an insomniac loser on the east coast.

Exactly. Not the perception part of your (re)statement.

Perception of selfishness is relative. Not selfishness.

By what means other than perception does one become aware of selfishness, exactly? :shock:


Sim, we both know you're smart enough to come up with that answer on your own.

Here, I promise this much: I'll have an Fe cuddlefest with you if you do...

:doh:

The problem seems to be that all assessments of selfishness are subject to perceptual bias.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
What is the relevance here? What point are you trying to make in relation to what we were talking about?
It honestly frightens me that you don't get what I'm talking about.

:confused:

Perhaps you'll ingest Z's definitions because he's an NT like you, :rolli:

I'm discussing Selfishness versus Altruism.

There is a spectrum; on the individual level, the monkey sphere level, as well as the species level.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
The problem seems to be that all assessments of selfishness are subject to perceptual bias.

True, so the onus on the intelligent perceiver is to separate those circumstances when the perception of selfishness is caused by differing function type from those times when perception of selfishness is caused by actual selfishness.

Smart people distinguish truth from perception. :yes:
 

kiddykat

movin melodies
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,111
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4, 7
I think it boils down to intentions, which are either to help or harm, regardless of Fi or Fe.

Those who truly are selfish, know when they are, because selfishness takes on a form of conscious manipulation, degradation, to place others in a position of disadvantage so that we get our needs met first.

There's a strong social component of me vs. we.

For instance: when a baby feeds off of its mother's nipples, the act can be seen as an act of selfishness, when skewed from that p.o.v., but the baby's intent is not to harm. The act of feeding onto a mother and needing that care can also be an act of cooperation so that the child grows up to become a productive citizen, who helps out the clan for the greater good for specie's survival. How is that selfish? JMO.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It honestly frightens me that you don't get what I'm talking about.

:confused:

Perhaps you'll ingest Z's definitions because he's an NT like you, :rolli:

I'm discussing Selfishness versus Altruism.

There is a spectrum; on the individual level, the monkey sphere level, as well as the species level.

Um...I understand what you're talking about. I just don't understand its relevance to the topic at hand.

You asked how anyone could ever perceive Fi as selfish. I tried to explain that sometimes it can appear this way from the Ti+Fe perspective.

You said that you had plenty of Fe, but also didn't understand how Fi could ever be perceived as selfish. I said this seemed odd given that someone proficient in Fe should easily be able to see why Ti+Fe people might find Fi selfish, even if they're wrong in this assessment.

You then veered off topic to inform me that selfishness and altruism exist. I don't see the relevance.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
What is the relevance here? What point are you trying to make in relation to what we were talking about?

It honestly frightens me that you don't get what I'm talking about.

:confused:

Perhaps you'll ingest Z's definitions because he's an NT like you, :rolli:

I'm discussing Selfishness versus Altruism.

There is a spectrum; on the individual level, the monkey sphere level, as well as the species level.

Um...I understand what you're talking about. I just don't understand its relevance to the topic at hand.

You asked how anyone could ever perceive Fi as selfish. I tried to explain that sometimes it can appear this way from the Ti+Fe perspective.

You said that you had plenty of Fe, but also didn't understand how Fi could ever be perceived as selfish. I said this seemed odd given that someone proficient in Fe should easily be able to see why Ti+Fe people might find Fi selfish, even if they're wrong in this assessment.

You then veered off topic to inform me that selfishness and altruism exist. I don't see the relevance.

Did an Ne user really just Ne an Ne user??!

:laugh:
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Perception of selfishness is relative. Not selfishness.
AND THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU!!!!

Fuckin' A, how someone cannot see/understand this baffles me, at least some of us do.

:hug:

:smooch:

The problem seems to be that all assessments of selfishness are subject to perceptual bias.
All information that human beings receive is PERCEIVED.

The question is how accurate are our perceptions, how accurately do they reflect truth/reality/what is.

Which reminds me, babe, are you coming over tonight?

:jew:
Still at work, but I'll be cumming over tomorrow.... hopefully. :yes:
 

Lex Talionis

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
382
MBTI Type
INTJ
Hahaha. This thread is brilliant.

I assume it was created as a response to the "ESFPs are stupid myth." This is what it's come to? You're comforting yourselves by attempting to "prove" that INTJ intelligence is a "myth" using your twisted logic and nitpicking of individual INTJs?

Absolutely hilarious.

The only "myth" here is your delusional belief in type equality.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
I think it boils down to intentions, which are either to help or harm, regardless of Fi or Fe.

Those who truly are selfish, know when they are, because selfishness takes on a form of conscious manipulation, degradation, to place others in a position of disadvantage so that we get our needs met first.

There's a strong social component of me vs. we.
:yes:

For instance: when a baby feeds off of its mother's nipples, the act can be seen as an act of selfishness, when skewed from that p.o.v., but the baby's intent is not to harm. The act of feeding onto a mother and needing that care can also be an act of cooperation so that the child grows up to become a productive citizen, who helps out the clan for the greater good for specie's survival. How is that selfish? JMO.
Reading this reminds me of how in certain circumstances infanticide can be not only justified, but altruistic.
 

Lex Talionis

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2009
Messages
382
MBTI Type
INTJ
I've noticed a trend in television sitcoms for "intelligent" characters to be INTJs.
Notably, Stewy Griffin, Gandalf the Grey, Hannibal Lectar and Severus Snape.

Obviously this a stereotype unfounded in reality, but what is it about INTJs that makes Hollywood writers make them intelligent characters, or alternatively make intelligent characters into INTJs?

How is it "unfounded in reality"? What is unrealistic about the type exhibiting the highest amount of intelligence being portrayed as intelligent on television? If it didn't have some basis in reality, it wouldn't have been taken seriously enough to characterize in such a fashion.

Brilliant thread is brilliant.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
The only "myth" here is your delusional belief in type equality.

I don't believe in type equality. I simply don't succumb to the myth that my type's positive qualities are inherently better than those of other types.

Unfortunately you do. It's a defense mechanism to prop up your ego.


AND THIS IS WHY I LOVE YOU!!!!

Fuckin' A, how someone cannot see/understand this baffles me, at least some of us do.

:hug:

:smooch:


All information that human beings receive is PERCEIVED.

The question is how accurate are our perceptions, how accurately do they reflect truth/reality/what is.


Still at work, but I'll be cumming over tomorrow.... hopefully. :yes:

How do you know for sure, objectively and not just perceptually, when someone is being selfish? Fi tells you so? Oops, and now we've run into the inevitable perceptual bias problem again.


"All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."
--Nietzsche
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
It seems to me that, since Fe values accommodating the feelings of others by altering its own, someone with "plenty of Fe" should be able to understand quite easily how Fi might be perceived as selfish (even if such a perception is ultimately erroneous or incomplete.)

But she didn't say, "While I value Fi more highly than Fe, I can see why people who emphasize Fe more might come to view Fi as selfish."

She just asked how on earth anyone could possibly see Fi as selfish. I would think someone with a good understanding of Fe would be able to understand how this position comes about, even if she doesn't agree with it.

The one thing you forgot to consider is that, just maybe, having strong Fi along with Fe, enables her to separate (false) perception from reality, and she knows deep down that Fi is indeed not selfish.
 
Top