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INTJ "Intelligent" Myth

simulatedworld

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Judging from the fact that all 8 N types beat all 8 S types, it seems pretty evident that the tests used test only giftedness in N-oriented tasks.

It's no surprise that Ns outperform Ss in these areas. What's the significance? And who says N-oriented tasks are more representative of true giftedness than S-oriented ones?


Remember, I don't run willy nilly outside the box.

I can see those statistics for exactly what they're worth.

What exactly are they worth, then? And if they're not worth much, why should us kiddos weep upon reading them?
 

miss fortune

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Judging from the fact that all 8 N types beat all 8 S types, it seems pretty evident that the tests used test only giftedness in N-oriented tasks.

It's no surprise that Ns outperform Ss in these areas. What's the significance? And who says N-oriented tasks are more representative of true giftedness than S-oriented ones?

true... If I beat you up and take your money, where's the good in being able to obtain it! :yim_rolling_on_the_
 

Poki

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Remember, I don't run willy nilly outside the box.

I can see those statistics for exactly what they're worth.

You should try running with your willy nilly outside the box. It may be worth wild.
 

Zarathustra

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But I think it does point to the fact that IQ tests point to something.

None of this is perfect, and it all gets muddled when you examine it too closely (as does most everything), but I think we can all agree that there is some kind of trait that we could call general intelligence, and that IQ tests -- properly administered, best in childhood -- are at least somewhat, albeit not entirely, accurate at pointing to whether one is of below, around, or greater than average intelligence, and, to a certain extent, how much below or how much greater than average one might be.

It ain't perfect, but most things aren't...

My answer would read something like this.
 

simulatedworld

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My answer would read something like this.

All of that rests upon an arbitrary assumption that puzzle-solving ability is representative of general intelligence.

Why should that be the case?


I would suggest doing so naked :yes:

What would a lowly ESTP like me have to do to get a brilliant INTJ like yourself to run around naked?
 

miss fortune

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Ok, but only after he runs around with just his willy nilly hanging out.

ok... that should work out well :yes:

after all... he IS an ESFP today... he should take advantage of that and have some fun!

and I KNEW that penises would be mentioned in this thread again! :yay:
 

Poki

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ok... that should work out well :yes:

after all... he IS an ESFP today... he should take advantage of that and have some fun!

and I KNEW that penises would be mentioned in this thread again! :yay:

lol, your a bad influence :D
 

Zarathustra

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All of that rests upon an arbitrary assumption that puzzle-solving ability is representative of general intelligence.

Why should that be the case?

Agreed. To an extent.

The issue is that, in life, for the benefit of oneself and the general public, problem solving is a major issue.

I'm not trying to deny or degrade other types of intelligence.

They exist and are very useful.

But a dog can have very high social intelligence.

He, however, is not[i/] gunna figure out a logical syllogism, let alone discover the theory of relativity.

There's a reason Aristotle called us the "rational" animal.

That "rationality", or "reason", is generally strongest in NTs.

And that's what those tests (attempt to) test for.

It's really that simple.
 

Zarathustra

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^ That's called Ni being able to, as Wildcat put it, "see things in context".
 

sculpting

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unicornp.jpg
 

miss fortune

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^ That's called Ni being able to, as Wildcat put it, "see things in context".

I would say that the true test of intelligence would be being able to understand what Ne, Ni, Se and Si mean when they're in conversation... some people can't keep up with the joys of Se :devil:

*remembers type*

y'all are dumbasses! :tongue:
 

Poki

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Agreed. To an extent.

The issue is that, in life, for the benefit of oneself and the general public, problem solving is a major issue.

I'm not trying to deny or degrade other types of intelligence.

They exist and are very useful.

But a dog can have very high social intelligence.

He, however, is not[i/] gunna figure out a logical syllogism, let alone discover the theory of relativity.

There's a reason Aristotle called us the "rational" animal.

That "rationality", or "reason", is generally strongest in NTs.

And that's what those tests (attempt to) test for.

It's really that simple.


You forget that one problem that faces an P type is way to much seriousness. Until you acknowledge that problem you will never see our greatness unfortunately:cry:
 

PeaceBaby

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It's no surprise that Ns outperform Ss in these areas. What's the significance? And who says N-oriented tasks are more representative of true giftedness than S-oriented ones?

I agree with you sim.

They measure a sub-set of skills that we loosely label as academic intelligence.

Those statistics demonstrate that those we label as academically gifted have a higher instance of self-identifying with certain MBTI types. It's circular when you think about it ... the tests, derived from academia, appeal to academia, measure the same academia.

IQ tests are "certainly very reliable, and do in fact relate well to success in school and western society -- i.e. the culture and institutions that share the values of these tests." (prev source)

They have merit, but not without context.

-----

There are many difficulties trying to measure intelligence; for example as alluded to above, cultural variables.

Here's a farm IQ test for you peeps:

1. How many days does it take for a chicken egg to hatch?
2. What color is a Holstein cow?
3. How many stomachs does a cow have?
4. Does a bull have a cud?
5. Is a rooster necessary for a hen to lay eggs?

The answers: 21; black and white; 4; yes; and no, unless you want fertilized eggs.

These are easy questions if you grew up on a farm! But you'll be sneaking off to Google to look them up if you didn't.

So it is with IQ tests - some assume a knowledge-base which introduces a variety of biases dependent upon your personal history. And although it is widely accepted that tests in use today try to be as culturally neutral as possible, there are many other biases that are difficult to dispel.

-----

The point: so you do an IQ test and are 130+. Or the school counsellors say you are gifted. It doesn't mean you'll be any more successful or happier in life than those who are closer to the top of the bell curve. And that's not speculation.

Remember, "With great power comes great responsibility." Uncle Ben.
 
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