What type is House?

[ptgatsby]

Well, I did some research of the functions themselves, and analyzed... spent hours a day for almost two years, wondering exactly what each function did, and why it did that. It's embedded into my brain. There's no MATH involved in my system and if you want, you can discredit it as a system. I've just become adroit at determining which function is being used, and what it's pairing with. There are seemingly insignificant nuances of behavior, that I wouldn't pay attention to otherwise, which give way to the ability to name the function someone used to come up with a conclusion or why they acted a certain way.

That's not a system. The "system" you are talking about is your opinion on who fits into an behavioural abstraction that is believed to be a cognitive function.

I've done the same you have for longer, I've worked through research paper after research paper. I've gone through system after system. I type people inside multiple systems pretty high - as in, objectively fairly high because I can confirm it with formally tested people. I've derived my own shortcuts, just as you have. I've gamed systems that I haven't even explored before. Personality is something I know inside and out. The point isn't that I can do it better than you can - the point is that neither is a "system". I'm not right because I have done this... Instead, I take the divisions within MBTI (since we are using MBTI - I rarely use it) and match up behaviour against a set model. A system must be validated to know what to look for. My own personal biases get in the way all the time - I don't have enough people to type to know if I am correct, I don't know if behaviour is conditional, I can't observe enough in order to be reliable. I am very aware of what biases does inside type (post #29 in my sig, if you are curious). What you need is to validate how you determine what someone is - at least, if you want to be credible. Doesn't matter for personal use.

That's what MBTI does and that is what the research is based upon. You discredit MBTI for not being personal, ignoring that you are one subjective person observing behaviour... while MBTI is a test with a solid million examples and interviews. You attack the verification of the test, the research and methodology, research that I very much doubt you have even read.

Let me be clear - I don't even support MBTI. I am a major opponent to MBTI. But I don't see how you can cast stones at MBTI when you offer no alternative - except your personal opinion on what people are. MBTI is simply the validated version of your opinion... and of course, it is closer to the source - it actually asks preferences rather than guesstimates from behaviour.

 

[Nonpareil]

"I base my information from what I observe and from the stories I exchanged with people over time."

= Si

edit: that's not amazing evidence. but you seem very Si to me, citing things you've read; thinking of the past as a great authority, etc.

I'm not citing things I read. All observation and objectively looking at every person's experience and actions. I take the stance I do based on observation and I am more than will to change my view when someone can give me objective information for me to base my stance on.

also, you can't see my perspective, which is very very very strong evidence that you aren't Ni dominant.

Of course I can't see your perspective, it makes no sense! You are uttering jibber jabber with no backing except for your own interpretation of things. You argue that you are right, that your thinking is superior to others. You have nothing to back it except for your supposed two years of researching it. What you say makes no sense and I can't see your perspective until you can come up with something more informative. Everything I hear you say is subjective and as far as I'm concerned, it is flawed and blind.

The fact that you came onto the scene to defend your friend fiance (or even if you didn't even know pt.) Is indicative of a feeling function. The fact that it was pt in particular who you were defending, implies that it was object Fe. I have no comment on your perception mode, but you appear to me to be an I_FJ.

There, fixed - pt is my fiance.

Actually, I was the one who started posting on this thread and arguing on my own. I was not defending pt or anyone else here. I hate how you attack people. Your points make no sense. If you must know, like I said before, your choice and tone of your words offended me. I hated how you attacked magic or anyone else - your only defense is veiled personal attacks. You claim you have evidence and you claim you know your stuff. I have yet to see that. I post here not to defend anyone but only the fact that you upset my vision of the world.

Oh, well, you may type me anyway you like. I don't care what you think of me, you mean nothing to me and you may continue accusing me of whatever you find convenient.

It was fun while it lasted but I'm just getting frustrated with the ignorance and closed-mindedness you have. You are claiming to be right and I disagree. Seeing how you can't accept that, it is pointless for me to continue this conversation.

Thanks for the good argument....I'm still new at all this online stuff but you helped me learn a lot.

 

[redacted]

i think i'm far far better at typing someone than a test could ever be. and nocapszy is probably better than i am. i understand that this is just my opinion, but let me give my rationale: i've convinced many people that their types are different than the results they've gotten on tests and they've eventually agreed with me.

furthermore, i had typed myself wrong for over a year and a half because i was using the mbti framework (4 separate binary oppositions). nocapszy helped me figure this out using FUNCTION THEORY, and now i agree with him.

blindly accepting the system as "the validated version of your opinion" is stupid. use your own reasoning.


"But I don't see how you can cast stones at MBTI when you offer no alternative - except your personal opinion on what people are."

he offered the function theory as an alternative. a theory that you don't understand. you don't know what you're talking about dude, so stop arguing.

 

[redacted]

"All observation and objectively looking at every person's experience and actions. I take the stance I do based on observation and I am more than will to change my view when someone can give me objective information for me to base my stance on."

i obviously think i do that too.

"Of course I can't see your perspective, it makes no sense! You are uttering jibber jabber with no backing except for your own interpretation of things."

what other backing could anyone come up with?

"You argue that you are right, that your thinking is superior to others."

well, of course i argue that i'm right lol. i never said my thinking was superior to yours. its just that you are making judgments on a theory that you yourself admitted you do not understand.

"Everything I hear you say is subjective and as far as I'm concerned, it is flawed and blind."

i would say the same about you. technically everything anyone says is subjective anyways. mooooooooooooooot point.


i would probably type you as an ISFJ; not that you care, but i just wanted to put it out there.


ugh i need to go back to intpc...

 

[Xander]

This is all getting a little silly now.

Firstly it's not really any different to try and figure out what functions someone uses most to trying to figure out each preference as some kind of switch and analyse in separation from the individual.

Secondly as I pointed out INTJ and ENTP go hand in hand.

Thirdly I have direct experience of an INTJ who plays roleplay, where you have a character as ott as you damn well please, and I can tell you for sure that he's more ENTP when he does that. Something about an INTJ who plays himself as his ultimate is both INTJ and ENTP.

Fourthly this is a fictional character and a hero and hence will not meet the full nuances of any type. Is Sherlock Holmes a perfect INTP? Is he heck as like and yet he is often quoted as an example. If you actually study the character properly he's an amalgamation of various types and is more one than another when the situation calls for it. Ie the writer has carte blanche to change the characters preferences to fit the plot and what she/he wants the character to do.

Fifth NT's are mentally flexible and can change their way of thinking to fit the situation more than any other type. NTPs do this the best. Personally, based on just that, I'd place House more as an NTJ than an NTP as he hesitates in flexing and sort of resists it.

Sixth get your handbags and take it to the car park if you can't keep it in your trousers, would be my advice.

 

[INTJMom]

I would argue that this is simply any NT seeking to be seen as a genius and competent at what they do.

Can any NTs argue that this isn't the case for them, intraverted or extraverted, J or P?

AHA! You have solved a major mystery for me!
I'm a strong I. I have so often wondered why I am driven to share the songs I write. How can an Introvert be so comfortable on a stage? Or look forward to the stage so much. But I do desire to be acknowledged as a competent singer and songwriter. (By the way, I'm not as good at it as I used to think, but I suppose I think I'm competent.) To tell the truth, I'm not actually physically comfortable on a stage, being scrutinized, yet I do so long to have an audience. I want to touch people's hearts with my songs, or just bring pleasure.

Generally speaking, I won't do anything unless I am sure I will be competent at it.

... Fourthly this is a fictional character and a hero and hence will not meet the full nuances of any type. Is Sherlock Holmes a perfect INTP? Is he heck as like and yet he is often quoted as an example. If you actually study the character properly he's an amalgamation of various types and is more one than another when the situation calls for it. Ie the writer has carte blanche to change the characters preferences to fit the plot and what she/he wants the character to do. ...

I agree with you about fictional characters... Sherlock Holmes an "N"?! The Master of Observation? That doesn't compute in my head... but I guess that would be a different thread.

 

[Xander]

AHA! You have solved a major mystery for me!
I'm a strong I. I have so often wondered why I am driven to share the songs I write. How can an Introvert be so comfortable on a stage? Or look forward to the stage so much. But I do desire to be acknowledged as a competent singer and songwriter. (By the way, I'm not as good at it as I used to think, but I suppose I think I'm competent.) To tell the truth, I'm not actually physically comfortable on a stage, being scrutinized, yet I do so long to have an audience. I want to touch people's hearts with my songs, or just bring pleasure.

Everyone wants a pat on the head. Everyone. That's why we're known as social creatures. Being an introvert doesn't stop it. It just makes you question it and resist.

Generally speaking, I won't do anything unless I am sure I will be competent at it.

Oh so got to get you drunk at some point. My INTJ friend is like that. He's quite reserved. He loves EVERYBODY when he's drunk though. You get hugs and such!!

Without darkness, what is light?

I agree with you about fictional characters... Sherlock Holmes an "N"?! The Master of Observation? That doesn't compute in my head... but I guess that would be a different thread.

That was my quibble too. SNAP!

 

[MacGuffin]

Since no one took up the challenge from yesterday I will instead ask a question.

How is House an introvert?

 

[Nocapszy]

This is all getting a little silly now.

Oh it's been silly. I just didn't have anything else to do than rack up my post count.

The interchange last night was absolutely ridiculous actually. Sort of like the interchange between the Jews and Hitler (officially Godwinned).

 

[Usehername]

Since no one took up the challenge from yesterday I will instead ask a question.

How is House an introvert?

I thought I sort of answered it that the "audience he plays" is simply NT driven and is independent of I/E and J/P

 

[INTJMom]

Since no one took up the challenge from yesterday I will instead ask a question.

How is House an introvert?

He spends time in his office bouncing a ball against a wall when he's thinking. He frequently abandons his team to go be alone.

He does think out loud though, but so do I when I am frustrated and I start asking for help.

 

[ptgatsby]

he offered the function theory as an alternative. a theory that you don't understand. you don't know what you're talking about dude, so stop arguing.

Honestly, coming from people who are misusing terms like reliability and validity and not understanding fundamental aspects of factor analysis and such... In any case, I'm afraid your version of "I read a book and I can type people well" fails to impress me... and constantly saying "I know more than you so I'm right" is a very poor argument.

 

[Usehername]

yeah I tend to go to others for the "beginning stages" of my thinking, to gather tons of messy data. then i go off alone to sort through it.

 

[Nocapszy]

Honestly, coming from people who are misusing terms like reliability and validity and not understanding fundamental aspects of factor analysis and such... In any case, I'm afraid your version of "I read a book and I can type people well" fails to impress me... and constantly saying "I know more than you so I'm right" is a very poor argument.

Thanks, I'm glad we could confuse yet another S.

 

[Totenkindly]

(How did I become the one to defend MBTI? Egad. I'm washing my hands of this whole thing. I'm suppose to be the critic of MBTI here! Gah.)

Thank you, pt -- the delicious irony here has got to be one of the most exciting birthday presents I've ever gotten!

I'm really enjoying reading this.

EDIT: Actually, I was enjoying reading this from the irony, but the content is becoming annoying.

"I base my information from what I observe and from the stories I exchanged with people over time."
= Si
edit: that's not amazing evidence. but you seem very Si to me, citing things you've read; thinking of the past as a great authority, etc.

edit: Sorry, I will try to tone it down... this is why I should wait to post a bit after reading something...

Regardless of someone's impressions of Non's type, this sort of thinking is just senseless. (Or perhaps your thought process is more complicated than this, and it's merely how you are articulating/justifying your views that comes off as extremely simplistic? I suppose it could be either...)

Sorry, I'm not in the mood to be diplomatic. I'm going to have to side with Non -- that there is a lot more in play here than a limited impromptu "function" assessment based on a virtual relationship. (This is generally why I do not waste my time participating in "Guess the Type" threads... because of the over-generalization of a few quotes or video images into some sort of simplistic functional analysis by armchair typists, without regard for context or history. I get intuitions myself about people's types, but I am still very wary of trying to sound definitive in a situation where it is clear I can't possibly "know" anything.)

And generally, this is the sort of stuff that the tests have been developed to compensate for.

Everyone has all the functions. What functions we use more often depend on context as well as our past. In this particular case, I propose that anyone can "base information from what I observe and from the stories I exchanged with people over time" -- regardless of actual type.

You would be a fool, regardless of type, to exclude this flow of information when it comes to evaluating what is happening in the world around you... or to simply assign it to a particular type. And as people mature, regardless of type, they tend to accept more and more lines of input as a matter of course; they don't remain fixated on their preferred data flow(s).

 

[Nocapszy]

He spends time in his office bouncing a ball against a wall when he's thinking. He frequently abandons his team to go be alone.

Yes he does. Doesn't mean introvert, it just means that he knows that he's capable of dextrous logical deduction while on his own rather than with people, since that's what he really does, if you're paying attention.

He does think out loud though, but so do I when I am frustrated and I start asking for help.

This is what Ne does. Frustrated or not, this is Ne.

 

[Xander]

Since no one took up the challenge from yesterday I will instead ask a question.

How is House an introvert?

Oh this won't see saw for ages.

Question to clarify your question Maccy G.

If House were portrayed as a classic introvert where all the internal monologue was internal and there was no insight into the character, would it be as interesting?

Basically if the write made House a proper introvert would the series be as successful?

(As you have no doubt intuited, don't you think it pays to make the introvert extroverted? Hell you got to see a lot more of Mulder than probably half his colleagues did.)

 

[Nocapszy]

Oh this won't see saw for ages.

Question to clarify your question Maccy G.

If House were portrayed as a classic introvert where all the internal monologue was internal and there was no insight into the character, would it be as interesting?

Basically if the write made House a proper introvert would the series be as successful?

Yes. Especially if he was a strung out INTP. Like the einstein of medicine. I think people would watch more if he were like that. I would anyway. He just sits there and stares at the wall for a long time, and when he does come up with the answer he's tripping over things and falling out of hi chair, just in time for the team to recognize he's figured it out. There wouldn't be the conflict between him and Cuddy... or anyone else really, but it would be funnier, I think.

(As you have no doubt intuited, don't you think it pays to make the introvert extroverted? Hell you got to see a lot more of Mulder than probably half his colleagues did.)

Either way, if the introvert is extraverted, he's still an extravert. That's like saying, well wouldn't he be a woman if he had tits and a vagina?

 

[Totenkindly]

Yes. Especially if he was a strung out INTP. Like the einstein of medicine. I think people would watch more if he were like that. I would anyway. He just sits there and stares at the wall for a long time, and when he does come up with the answer he's tripping over things and falling out of hi chair, just in time for the team to recognize he's figured it out. There wouldn't be the conflict between him and Cuddy... or anyone else really, but it would be funnier, I think.

it definitely would be funnier... for a short while. But for a TV show (or movie, or visual medium), it simply doesn't fly long. That tends to be one of the inherent difficulties in writing introverted characters for visual medium; they work well in books, with an omniscient narrator, but NOT where you must constantly "show" and can't "tell."

 

[Nocapszy]

it definitely would be funnier... for a short while. But for a TV show (or movie, or visual medium), it simply doesn't fly long. That tends to be one of the inherent difficulties in writing introverted characters for visual medium; they work well in books, with an omniscient narrator, but NOT where you must constantly "show" and can't "tell."

Sure, I understand that.

How does that make him an introvert?

I don't think House's type is any different just because the executives want to make more money.