Are manners lacking in today's world? If so, why?

[disregard]

Well my mother says people used to have more manners. She says people were more family-oriented, whereas now people are more self-centered. She cites the media as being a culprit, and I agree. Why else would people care so much about stars were it not for an on-the-rise worship of looks, money, and social status.

 

[BerberElla]

Well my mother says people used to have more manners. She says people were more family-oriented, whereas now people are more self-centered. She cites the media as being a culprit, and I agree. Why else would people care so much about stars were it not for an on-the-rise worship of looks, money, and social status.

The appearance of it being on the rise is just that though, something people can see wider because the ability to see wider is available.

The worship of it has always been there, flatterers to the rich, hoardes of adoring fans, it was always there, but now everyone, thanks to the media, can partake in it, join in the worship and be seen to do it.

I don't think the people are any different, just the lifestyles.

Just my opinion though.

 

[disregard]

You are right about that.

I haven't been around for generations, so I guess I'll settle with "unpolished persons are rude." Mature people possess manners.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I'm big on the driving etiquette. It feels like a lot of people forget they are moving in a crowd when they drive, and instead just see cars. My table etiquette depends on where I am. If I go to a fine restaurant I adapt to do things properly. If I'm at home watching TV, I eat with whatever is easiest, and I would probably look strangely at anyone who pulled me up on it for not "being proper". Anywhere in between, I do a mix of the two.

When engaging with people I won't follow the normal order of conversation, but I'm quite careful not to insult them. I probably say thank you and sorry more than most people I know. When I use anything that is public or shared I like to leave it in the best condition possible for others and not screw them round. On the other hand, if conversation wants to wander into the totally inappropriate I normally go there and will probably help it go there. If it will have a strong negative impact on someone by going there, I will be very careful though.

Awesome use of manners!

1) Does type affect manners? Is it an Fe thing?
It might correlate with interest in them. And maybe different types have different ideas of what manners are.

2) Would you describe yourself as rude or lacking manners? Or both? Or well-mannered?
Well mannered. Very few people IRL have pulled me up on anything but not tying my shoe laces or making my bed. People interactions are an area where I'm very aware of things.

3) Do you think you need to improve in the manners department?
In some areas. Maybe there's some things I'd like to learn that I might still be ignorant to.

4) Are manners not needed as much anymore in this age of technology?
I find internet trolls funny. I don't think they should be a standard though. If the internet is used for communication which would normally involve manners, I see no reason not to be well mannered. If it is a situation where people enjoy the opportunity to be free from manners and it works best without them, then maybe we can ignore them.


btw, I chose 6.

I, for one, have always appreciated your consideration and insight. I think you're an 7 or 8, Noigmn. WAIT! My poll sorta sux--haha--make that a 9?

ps. lolz on the similar avvy comments........

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I lack manners, I hate manners, I couldn't care less about manners. Of course tho I would offer stuff to somebody that came to visit me, that's not manners tho, manners is more bullshit-like stuff you don't feel like doing. I chose 1 - proud of it.

So, you don't feel a responsibility to be nice to people? If manners is just making people feel comfortable, do you not care if people feel comfortable around you, inasmuch as you can make them comfortable? ENTJs would have the stereotypical shitty Fe. Do you feel like your Fe sucks? If so, do you feel like this is an excuse to be rude? Do you want to 'work on' your Fe function at all? How did/does your family tolerate your lack of manners?

 

[Litvyak]

We do not lack manners, I couldn't care less about manners. We lack honesty. We fake interest, and we hide ignorance for our own convenience, without putting the slightest effort to learn empathy or to express our dislike. Too much manners, not enough feelings. It's really making me sick.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

We do not lack manners, I couldn't care less about manners. We lack honesty. We fake interest, and we hide ignorance for our own convenience, without putting the slightest effort to learn empathy or to express our dislike. Too much manners, not enough feelings. It's really making me sick.

okay. what about the 'honest' jerk-off who is an ass to someone in the name of honesty?

I agree doing empathy is lacking.

expressing dislike in a mannerly way does take finesse.

Why is everyone squelching their feelings? Why? Are we all hurt and hiding? Or what?

Aren't manners the best things we have to bridge these gaps between ourselves and others in a considerate and even compassionate way?

 

[Snuggletron]

I voted 9 but maybe I should have voted differently. I am socially conscientious but it does feel forced/faux half of the time. Treating everyone mannerly does keep the harmony, but it can also hide a person's true colors. If you really valued a person's manners and then find out they are actually crude on the inside you might feel betrayed or think the person is two-faced. But that's a given since most everyone has different faces for different people.

You can assume I am closer/friendlier to you the more crudeness you see projected outward from me. And the more mannerly and small-talk-y I am to you the more you can assume the relationship between us is superficial and weak. Manners are a tool people use to keep on good common grounds with strangers, acquaintances, and their boss.

 

[1104]

authenticity is worth more than cultured behavior. manners themselves don't matter. truth and respect are all you need to please. [bitch about babylon]

 

[FDG]

So, you don't feel a responsibility to be nice to people?

Nope, I don't feel responsibility, but I still am nice to people because I want to. I cannot bring myself to feel like I have to, though.

If manners is just making people feel comfortable, do you not care if people feel comfortable around you, inasmuch as you can make them comfortable?

Not generally, unless I explicitly like them. I mean, if I like them, of course I will try to make them feel comfortable as much as I can. This isn't what is commonly understood as manners, though, from my perspective, since manners are meant to be used indipendently from our feelings towardas the person.

ENTJs would have the stereotypical shitty Fe. Do you feel like your Fe sucks? If so, do you feel like this is an excuse to be rude? Do you want to 'work on' your Fe function at all? How did/does your family tolerate your lack of manners?

I think I can see what can make a person uncomfortable, so in that sense my Fe does not suck completely. I don't want to work at Fe because I don't like the effects, I don't really derive enjoyment from being nice to people I don't feel any connection with. My family seems to tolerate it quite well, I like them thus I don't have any problem being nice to 'em.

 

[Glycerine]

Just a random thought. If you are overly concerned w/ manners and you EXPECT other people to reciprocate (stereotypically Fe), you can come off as rather judgmental (you in the general sense). Some Fe users drive me crazy because of this. As a Fe user, it's like a struggle between being PC/proper vs. being yourself.

 

[Litvyak]

okay. what about the 'honest' jerk-off who is an ass to someone in the name of honesty?

WAY more appreciated than the dishonest worm who hides the poison of ignorance behind kind words and a smile.

expressing dislike in a mannerly way does take finesse.

Expressing dislike without being afraid of the consequences takes bravery. Say things as they are, not as people would like to hear it.

Are we all hurt

Yes.

and hiding?

No.

ETA: I do think this is an Fe-related thing, though.

 

[Quinlan]

We may be less mannered but we're probably more sincere because of it.

I suppose I am reasonably well mannered, I'm sure to say please and thank you and I'm patient with others. I am terrible at assessing the needs of others though, I'll gladly help you but I usually need to be told what it is you want.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Yeah this is me too. The simple things I'm in the habit of always doing, but I don't tend to go...out of my way, I guess? Half the time I think it's unnecessary or would make people feel weird, I dunno.

This sounds pretty mannerly because you are putting people's feelings first.

Manners are relative, and saying that no one has any manners anymore is indicative of a dogmatic-Fe stance that refuses to adapt to changing circumstances and the cultural tide.

That's my excuse, anyway.

But why are circumstances changing so quickly? What's causing that to happen? People are not evolving that quickly. Are we all becoming immune to lack of manners, or is it bothersome that the cultural tide is changing so quickly in this regard?

Why are most people lacking in manners?
The question if they do is pointless. They do.
It is because they are uneducated rabble.
Not like the working class used to be.
Television and media bombardment leaves its marks.
They do not care about things like being polite and honest.
Lots of people nowadays think that it is okay or even cool
to be a criminal as long as you get away with it in some "cool" way.
It's just decadence because they have never had to struggle.

Before, the working class was indeed poor. But it read a lot of books and it had traditions and values.
It was steadfast and unrelenting. When democracy that they had been longing for finally came around and life gradually became easier, things started to deteriorate with every generation in most families.
This is not unheard of historically, either. It's ups and downs.
It will bring around a new time of trouble and lots of people will doubtlessly die.

Where before someone would rather cut their own arm off than steal, some now do.
Before, everyone opened doors for and helped old ladies carry things or get over streets.
Giving your seat in a bus or train to someone old and fragile is just something one should do.
Lots of snotty little brats as well as "adults" now don't give a **** about anyone but themselves.

They're no longer "working class" like us honest people.
They are just trash proletariat. A term called "Lumpenproletariat" by Marx and Engels.
God, nothing pisses me off like this. That's why I at first didn't write about it...
Well, I decided to do so anyway.

Well, thanks for sharing that view. I can tell it means a lot to you. What is it about the working class, do you think, that made/makes it more considerate of others? You mention tv and media. How does this affect people regarding their manners?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I think of manners as an Fe thing. I put 5 but I think I would change it to 6. I wouldn't say that I'm not well mannered but I think I get too comfortable too quick. I'm not as natural with formalities as I should be, unless I'm trying really hard, like for an interview or something. I do feel that generations before us did a better job at this. (The generations before the baby boomers.) They were less centered in their own success and busy lives and more centered in relationships and each other. I haven't read the article yet so I don't understand the technology question, but I can take a blind smack at it. I think we get too used to communicating via technology, which doesn't require as much skill with etiquette, as manners a lot of times require certain body language and facial expressions. I think of "technology manners" as using capital letters, proper punctuation, and spelling, and full sentences. An email with all the new abbreviations and smileys, lowercase, whatever, would indicate either a closer relationship, and of course you wouldn't email a resume with this type of language. But face to face manners are a completely different thing, obviously. So in short, no I don't think it's less necessary, but it's definitely less common since people get less practice. If that makes sense. I may be off in left field with this, but it's my own idea without having read the article to know what you're talking about.

I work with the elderly and find that having manners goes a long way in my friendships with them. They tend to open up and feel more comfortable around a young lady with manners, because that's what they grew up with.

Edit: Just read the technology in public article. That is much more accepted than it was even 5 years ago, I think.

I'm curious what makes you say the bolded. Is it just your thoughts, or is it something you've observed/heard in the senior adults you work with, or is it personal experience?

I wasn't going to comment, but I am now since there are people who disagree with my POV...



Not at all. I've seen people (specifically males), with otherwise low Fe, display very good manners because they know it's advantageous to the situation (not geniune).

That's an interesting point about being genuine. To me, there is something genuine in just using manners whether or not you are getting the same feeling out of it as the recipient of your good manners. You know?

No. Manners are still important - in interviews, meeting future in-laws, etc.

lolz

Could you please excuse me from posting anything substantial in this thread? Thank you. *curtsies*

Absolutely. Thanks for dropping in, Tesla, and we hope you come again.


1!

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Perhaps because parents aren't hounding their children about manners because it isn't necessary for social survival anymore. Looks? Money? Social status? Much easier way to win people over.

I think manners is either taught, or more likely, modeled form parent(s) to child. Perhaps and Fe dom/aux would naturally adopt manners without being taught, who knows? Isn't social survival still necessary though? We still need each other. We have to work together at least. We have to live in families. Why aren't children learning/being taught manners anymore?

Hasn't that always been the case though? in all ages, looks, money and social status have mattered more when it comes to winning over people, than manners ever have.

I hear people often going on about todays generation lacking manners, but I have been pushed by a granny trying to get on a bus, whilst I was holding a baby in one arm and pram in the other, not even giving me the chance to move out of her way, no excuse me, no manners whatsoever, so it's not purely generational.

It's a running joke that one should be careful of grannies near buses over here, they are rude.

Big city living over rural living is another that springs to mind when people talk about differences in manners. Yet that only works in you fit in to the small city and don't stand out, where were the manners in a small village I lived in in yorkshire when they were busy hailing out "Oi, paki" to me and my son?

Very introspective post! It seems like if the granny had grown up with manners, she would use them. It seems like a small village would be more intimate and hold their actions more accountable preventing their members from cat-calling to a mom and her son. Which would leave one to conclude no one generation or demographic is better than another. But what if granny's generation DID have manners, but granny got so burned having to limp across town with her cane because the asshole busdriver left her or because there was no room on the bus for her? Maybe after a couple years of that happening, granny got wise to the new ways of the wicked world. Maybe the values in a small-town are afflicted by the same evils that the city is afflicted with. Maybe something else is going on.

Vs the teenage, hooded, criminal looking youth who stopped to ask me the other day if I needed help with my shopping, getting onto the bus, here in city living where I am now.

he prolly thought you were hot.

I don't know, I've seen manners span across cultures and generations, with only the personality, ie being a nice person, being the defining factor.

I voted 9 but maybe I should have voted differently. I am socially conscientious but it does feel forced/faux half of the time. Treating everyone mannerly does keep the harmony, but it can also hide a person's true colors. If you really valued a person's manners and then find out they are actually crude on the inside you might feel betrayed or think the person is two-faced. But that's a given since most everyone has different faces for different people.

You can assume I am closer/friendlier to you the more crudeness you see projected outward from me. And the more mannerly and small-talk-y I am to you the more you can assume the relationship between us is superficial and weak. Manners are a tool people use to keep on good common grounds with strangers, acquaintances, and their boss.

When you are the recipient of good manners, I don't think you analyze too much what's below the surface, unless something else is going on with you. I think the act of having and using good manners is really what counts. You know, the action. I agree with you about good manners being a tool. But I would also add that manners are nice to use with your family too.. For example, I expect my children to thank me for dinner after they eat. Yes, I know they are being forced to say this, but over time, they do learn consideration for the person who prepared their food, which I hope they carry into their life, but I also like hearing it!

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

authenticity is worth more than cultured behavior. manners themselves don't matter. truth and respect are all you need to please. [bitch about babylon]

I agree about authenticity. But respect is manners, no? So if you need respect to please, don't you need manners to please?

Nope, I don't feel responsibility, but I still am nice to people because I want to. I cannot bring myself to feel like I have to, though.



Not generally, unless I explicitly like them. I mean, if I like them, of course I will try to make them feel comfortable as much as I can. This isn't what is commonly understood as manners, though, from my perspective, since manners are meant to be used indipendently from our feelings towardas the person.



I think I can see what can make a person uncomfortable, so in that sense my Fe does not suck completely. I don't want to work at Fe because I don't like the effects, I don't really derive enjoyment from being nice to people I don't feel any connection with. My family seems to tolerate it quite well, I like them thus I don't have any problem being nice to 'em.

Really? Are you sure? Have you tried this? Random acts of kindness?

Just a random thought. If you are overly concerned w/ manners and you EXPECT other people to reciprocate (stereotypically Fe), you can come off as rather judgmental (you in the general sense). Some Fe users drive me crazy because of this. As a Fe user, it's like a struggle between being PC/proper vs. being yourself.

I agree. Judgmental mannerly behavior is very easy to spot. Manners are to make people feel comfortable, not pressure them into behaving a certain way.

WAY more appreciated than the dishonest worm who hides the poison of ignorance behind kind words and a smile.



Expressing dislike without being afraid of the consequences takes bravery. Say things as they are, not as people would like to hear it.

But this might be more than a situation calls for--honesty at all costs. Yes, expressing dislike valiantly takes finesse, and manners are very much called for in this circumstance.

We may be less mannered but we're probably more sincere because of it.

I don't know about that.

I suppose I am reasonably well mannered, I'm sure to say please and thank you and I'm patient with others. I am terrible at assessing the needs of others though, I'll gladly help you but I usually need to be told what it is you want.

isfp that you are/ we forgive you we'll tell you what we need........

 

[SillySapienne]

I am a fan of human decency, consideration and kindness, and I think all three of these things equate to the holy trinity of manners.

In terms of speaking manners, I am a fan of saying and hearing please and thank you.

I am also a fan of letting others speak up when they desire or need to and actually listening to what they say when they are talking. If you need to interject, excuse yourself, and you better have a good reason for interjecting.

Regarding actions, I open doors for people, and I hold doors for those behind me, I am rarely if ever in a rush, so I mind the traffic around me.

Regarding driving, I never honk unless someone is about to hit me, and I let people in my lane, or stop to let someone out of a parking space whenever I catch it in time.

More than anything, I know how strong of an effect people have on others, it's almost infectious, actually, so I always try my part to make any social interaction as enjoyable/mutually beneficial as possible.

 

[SillySapienne]

Manners are to make people feel comfortable.

Absolutely, yes!!!

I find that manners are the byproduct of treating people with a certain level of respect and consideration.

When you are in the company of others, you are NOT by yourself, therefore you must realize that you are not the center of the universe and that, for the time being, you must adjust or acclimate to not only meeting your own needs but the needs of others as well.

 

[Litvyak]

But this might be more than a situation calls for--honesty at all costs. Yes, expressing dislike valiantly takes finesse, and manners are very much called for in this circumstance.

Expressing dislike "valiantly" is a nice quality for sure, until it doesn't turn to "fake expressions for the sake of a compromise". It's just that I don't see this problem expressed in the Op, or perhaps I don't see it as a problem - certainly not as important as a lack of honesty and concern. THAT is something we should talk about.