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Can we all agree on a Personality Type for Oscar Wilde?

curiousel

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Jan 3, 2010
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I´ve been looking and there seems to be too many different opinions.
What is his type? Why?

P.S. please reply if you have read about him extensively.
 

Fecal McAngry

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I´ve been looking and there seems to be too many different opinions.
What is his type? Why?

P.S. please reply if you have read about him extensively.
He was an ENFP. Incidentally, the scene in TYSON where INFP Mike walks on the beach and, in voice over, recites the following lines from The Ballad of Reading Gaol is extremely moving...

Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
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INTP
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5w4
ENTP
Loved play on words, loved people and parties, loved to go off on tangents, attuned to his surroundings, and easily bored and withdrawn, wide range of interests, excellent at reading people, enjoys playing the devils advocate etc...classic ENTP
 

Fecal McAngry

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ENTP
Loved play on words, loved people and parties, loved to go off on tangents, attuned to his surroundings, and easily bored and withdrawn, wide range of interests, excellent at reading people, enjoys playing the devils advocate etc...classic ENTP
It's worth noting that with the exception of enjoys playing the devils advocate--which Wilde was not really about--these are either equally true of all ENPs, or more true of ENFPs. And reading his work, his attributed quotes--it is very clear that OW was a humanist, not a logician or scientist or NTP wit in the style of Lewis Carol. That his 2nd function was Fi, not Ti, is made very clear by his observations about the nature of what it means to be human & the subjective reality of the human experience. He stands with Mark Twain and Will Rogers, other ENFPs, in his sad, pithy remarks on the comic disaster of life.
 

Space_Oddity

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so
I vote for an ENFJ. So we obviously can't all agree on his type.
 

dynamiteninja

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ENFP. Although I've heard an interesting argument for ENFJ too.
 

Spamtar

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There appears to be a fair dose of what is kin to the devils advocacy in his only novel the Picture of Dorian Gray. Also a lot of his most memorable witticisms are a blend of what initially appears to be inconstant stances taken up simultaneously resulting in a pithy outcome. In fact this seems to be his predominant style for most of his memorable quotes. For example:

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal.

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
 

Space_Oddity

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There appears to be a fair dose of what is kin to the devils advocacy in his only novel the Picture of Dorian Gray. Also a lot of his most memorable witticisms are a blend of what initially appears to be inconstant stances taken up simultaneously resulting in a pithy outcome. In fact this seems to be his predominant style for most of his memorable quotes. For example:

A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal.

A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her.

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

Well, but these quotes do sound rather Ni+Se than Ne+Si to me. Finding a connection between two contradictory things and making a unity of them sounds like something Ni users are more talented at than Ne users. I really think his sense of humor is more Ni than Ne, and because I'm convinced he was a feeler, it leaves me with an ENFJ.

spamtar said:
ENTP
Loved play on words, loved people and parties, loved to go off on tangents, attuned to his surroundings, and easily bored and withdrawn, wide range of interests, excellent at reading people, enjoys playing the devils advocate etc...classic ENTP

All of this can be applied to an ENFJ as well. The "excellent at reading people" sounds actually much more ENFJ than ENTP. Attuned to his surroundings may easily be Se, and loving people and parties Fe+Se.

Also, ENFJs are often very humanistic, as Fecal McAngry pointed out. Take Toni Morrison, for example.
 

Spamtar

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Hmm good points. In fact its my intuition that mostly tells me he is ENTP. Taking him as a J is difficult especially because his highjinx primarily occurred in Victorian England. The homosexuality/bisexuality/dandy thing is a bit tricky too as many of the more (for lack of a better word) theatrical gays are presumed to be Fs. I always thought of ENFJs as being more giving(or punishing as the case may be) to the individual/many individual as opposed to the group dynamic in general. Thus I am open to being convinced otherwise but nevertheless still feel he was an ENTP.

What would be the most sure fire way on clearly distinguishing an ENTP from an ENFJ?
 

Space_Oddity

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Hmm good points. In fact its my intuition that mostly tells me he is ENTP. Taking him as a J is difficult especially because his highjinx primarily occurred in Victorian England. However I am open to being convinced otherwise.

What would be the most sure fire way on clearly distinguishing an ENTP from an ENFJ.

I think the best way would truly be distinguishing if he uses Ne+Si or Ni+Se, as the judging functions are the same for these types. Personally, I certainly see more Ni+Se in him (the Se could perhaps be seen even in his lifestyle, I guess). Also, it's worth noting that if he was, let's say, ENFP, his functions that would be most "visible" would be Ne and Te (the extraverted functions), while the Feeling would be a little more hidden. I confess I fail to see any Te in him, and in my opinion he extraverted his feeling quite a lot. It's up to discussion if the other extraverted function of him was Ne or Se. I vote for the latter.

Another personal reason of mine why I can't see him as an ENTP is that after reading The Happy Prince and Other Stories, one of the most poignant books I've ever read, I have serious problems seeing him as a thinker. In my opinion, The Picture of Dorian Gray shows feeling tendencies as well, and (just as The Happy Prince) it's heavy on symbolism, which is also more of a Ni domain. Besides that, I see ENFJs and INFJs as the most "thinking" of all feelers thanks to their Ti, which would explain the witty tone of other Wilde's works (just as his plays).

I also don't think that being a J necessarily means following the norms. I see many revolutionaries as Js. I think it would be quite surprising if he was an SJ, but NJs are pretty open to change and often even induce it, if I'm not mistaken.
 

Spamtar

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Thanks for the elaboration. Some very good points especially:

The Picture of Dorian Gray shows feeling tendencies as well, and (just as The Happy Prince) it's heavy on symbolism, which is also more of a Ni domain.

and
I also don't think that being a J necessarily means following the norms. I see many revolutionaries as Js. I think it would be quite surprising if he was an SJ, but NJs are pretty open to change and often even induce it, if I'm not mistaken.
(I find this tends to be especially true with NFJs)


Logically I now feel torn between ENTP and ENFJ although my stuborn intution still insists ENTP.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
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I think if you type Oscar Wilde as anything but ENTP, then you don't really know what an ENTP is. It's kind of like saying Einstein is an INFJ or Michael Jordan is an INTJ. Some people really embody what a certain type is supposed to be. I can't think of anyone that embodies ENTP better than Oscar Wilde.
 

Space_Oddity

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I think if you type Oscar Wilde as anything but ENTP, then you don't really know what an ENTP is. It's kind of like saying Einstein is an INFJ or Michael Jordan is an INTJ. Some people really embody what a certain type is supposed to be. I can't think of anyone that embodies ENTP better than Oscar Wilde.

This is not really a good argument, The_Liquid_Laser. I could easily turn it against you and tell you that if you think Oscar Wilde was anything but an NF, you don't really know what an NF temperament is.

I think I understand where you're coming from because my mental image of an ENTP is often very "Wildean". I think it's somewhat ingrained in people's minds that ENTP = charming person with sharp wit. But that doesn't mean that in reality, another type cannot possess the exact same qualities and not be an ENTP. To be honest, even though I can easily "imagine" a Wildean ENTP, the ENTP males I know in real life don't remind me of Wilde in the slightest, and the ENTP females I know are easily comparable when it comes to their intellect, but they aren't comparable when it comes to their feeling side. Why? Because their Feeling is just in a "supporting role" for their Thinking, whereas Wilde's Thinking was in a supporting role for his Feeling. In my opinion, Wilde was primarily an idealist, not an intellectual, which is something one normally cannot tell about NTs because they would just cease to be NTs. (Likewise, Einstein clearly belonged to intellectuals, not idealists, and Michael Jordan can be hardly seen as anything else but an SP.)

Curiously enough, the only person in my circle of acquaintances who really somewhat reminds me of Wilde is an ENFJ gay male, an aspiring writer with ideas and style very similar to Wilde's and truly impeccable wits.

The main thing that rules out an NT for me, though, is again the fact that Wilde was so comfortable and skillfull in writing about deep emotions. The Happy Prince is one of the most "feeling" books I've ever read (easily comparable to INFP Andersen's fairy-tales, but more symbolic), and I would have yet to encounter another NT who would be able of this (they usually don't aspire to do this in the first place). INTJs and ENTPs do come close sometimes, but still, not quite. The whole point of The Happy Prince is to provoke strong emotions and subsequent change, which is an NF, specifically NFJ, area. I think that The Picture of Dorian Gray is primarily based on emotions as well. However, NTs primarily want to provoke thoughts, feeling tends to be secondary.
 

dynamiteninja

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The main thing that rules out an NT for me, though, is again the fact that Wilde was so comfortable and skillfull in writing deep emotions. The Happy Prince is one of the most "feeling" books I've ever read (easily comparable to INFP Andersen's fairy-tales, but more symbolic), and I would have yet to encounter another NT who would be able of this (they usually don't aspire to do this in the first place). INTJs and ENTPs do come close sometimes, but still, not quite. The whole point of The Happy Prince is to provoke strong emotions and subsequent change, which is an NF, specifically NFJ, area. I think that The Picture of Dorian Gray is primarily based on emotions as well. However, NTs primarily want to provoke thoughts, feeling tends to be secondary.

This sells it for me. It does seem very likely to me that The Happy Prince and The Picture of Dorian Gray were written by an NF.
 

Grace

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We should take a vote. I think I would have to go with ENFP based mainly on his sense of humor. It seems NFP to me.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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This is not really a good argument, The_Liquid_Laser. I could easily turn it against you and tell you that if you think Oscar Wilde was anything but an NF, you don't really know what an NF temperament is.

I'm not trying to make a good argument, because you can't argue about something like this. I can't make an argument that the grass is green either. Either you can see the grass is green or you can't. There is no point trying to convince someone that grass is green if they don't know what green is.

It's the same with trying to argue that Oscar Wilde is an ENTP. If a person doesn't know what it means to be ENTP, then they'll never accept that Oscar Wilde is ENTP. On the other hand a person who understands what an ENTP is will see that Oscar Wilde is the definitive ENTP. I can't think of a better archetypal example.
 

the state i am in

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It's the same with trying to argue that Oscar Wilde is an ENTP. If a person doesn't know what it means to be ENTP, then they'll never accept that Oscar Wilde is ENTP. On the other hand a person who understands what an ENTP is will see that Oscar Wilde is the definitive ENTP. I can't think of a better archetypal example.

seriously? think harder. benjamin franklin. or any other myriad of entp inventors. people who create fucking crazy ideas.

wilde is a 4w3, and i think enfj makes more sense than entp. he could have been an entp, but the premise of a picture of dorian gray sounds about as Fe as it gets. literally seeing yourself, the exterior of yourself, thru the eyes of an other. this does not sound Ti. he sounds like inferior Ti.

also, fucking quentin tarantino. that's an entp (granted a 7w8). Ti rationality being stylized in a difficult-to-resist way, but with the two scoops of fucking crazy of Ne.

one of my best friends is an entp 4w3, and while he'd dig oscar wilde, he's not oscar wilde. he's too rational. he solves problems too easily (much to his credit). his Ti-Fe balance is as good as i've ever seen from anyone, but he's Ti first, he uses Fe to perfectly balance his Ti.

enfj is so much more dandy. and 4w3 is the penultimate style bricoleur.
 
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