Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

[Totenkindly]

Joel: INFP (probably... not totally sure on N, but he's not an ISFP).

Clem: ESFP, just totally, like, jah (an ENFP has much more obvious big-picture clarity, Clem is really usually caught up in the dizzying cycle of sensory stimulation and is very very impulsive)

Joel was an ISFJ, with all that passive agrressivenes, repressed feelings, and living in the past.

I doubt it, although I see why you say it. But even his sketching wasn't very S. Have you ever seen ISFJ drawers? They very much adhere to specific literal replications of real-life items, Joel didn't do that at all.

You know how one INTP combo can be Ti+Si style? Imagine an Fi+Si (withdrawn -- and Joel is extremely withdrawn) style now. I'm thinking it would look a lot like Joel... very timid, fearful, strong inner judgments. He also could easily accept Clem's external quirks even tho she was socially a disaster; I don't see ISFJ doing that whatsoever. This is because Joel's Fi valueset allowed for expression of individuality. But she also threatened their safe haven and prevented him from risk-managing his life, and he felt used and violated by her aggressive emotional outbursts.

 

[Giggly]

Joel: INFP (probably... not totally sure on N, but he's not an ISFP).

Clem: ESFP, just totally, like, jah (an ENFP has much more obvious big-picture clarity, Clem is really usually caught up in the dizzying cycle of sensory stimulation and is very very impulsive)

Agreed.

 

[The Ü™]

I typed Joel as an INJ due to the Ni nature of the watercolors he creates throughout the film. I think INFJ is the most likely.

Clementine is an ESFP. Like, totally. (Dammit, Jennifer did it first!)

 

[Edgar]

Joel: INFP (probably... not totally sure on N, but he's not an ISFP).

Clem: ESFP, just totally, like, jah (an ENFP has much more obvious big-picture clarity, Clem is really usually caught up in the dizzying cycle of sensory stimulation and is very very impulsive)



I doubt it, although I see why you say it. But even his sketching wasn't very S. Have you ever seen ISFJ drawers? They very much adhere to specific literal replications of real-life items, Joel didn't do that at all.

Joel had this quiet, pent up frustration about him that's very indicative of an ISFJ. When his car got damaged in parking, he left a note that said "thanks". And he was nitpicky about clementine's flaws - which she pointed it out to him. Even though he cared for clamentine more than any other woman, he was reluctant to have kids because he didn't think she was "mother" material. He was constantly simmering with emotions that he had trouble expressing until it would finally explode in viciousness (like that time he basically accused clemntine of being a whore). All of this is indicative of unhealthy ISFJ behavior.

 

[Laurie]

Awesome movie even though it's depressing.

I've noticed a lot of people type ESFPs in movies as ENFPs or v.v. Do they look so much the same from the outside?

Yeah, and why are you on Typology Central again - being an extrovert? Oh, I forgot - because you're too far gone to operate in the real world.

And wtf is that?

 

[Giggly]

Joel had this quiet, pent up frustration about him that's very indicative of an ISFJ. When his car got damaged in parking, he left a note that said "thanks". And he was nitpicky about clementine's flaws - which she pointed it out to him. Even though he cared for clamentine more than any other woman, he was reluctant to have kids because he didn't think she was "mother" material. He was constantly simmering with emotions that he had trouble expressing until it would finally explode in viciousness (like that time he basically accused clemntine of being a whore). All of this is indicative of unhealthy ISFJ behavior.

Edgar is convincing here.

 

[VagrantFarce]

how is clem an esfp, not an enfp?

[edit] n/m, I can't read

 

[Lady_X]

she's such the enfp!

oh wait...really? hmmm....

jennifer...
Clem: ESFP, just totally, like, jah (an ENFP has much more obvious big-picture clarity, Clem is really usually caught up in the dizzying cycle of sensory stimulation and is very very impulsive)

 

[Totenkindly]

Joel had this quiet, pent up frustration about him that's very indicative of an ISFJ. When his car got damaged in parking, he left a note that said "thanks". And he was nitpicky about clementine's flaws - which she pointed it out to him. Even though he cared for clamentine more than any other woman, he was reluctant to have kids because he didn't think she was "mother" material. He was constantly simmering with emotions that he had trouble expressing until it would finally explode in viciousness (like that time he basically accused clemntine of being a whore). All of this is indicative of unhealthy ISFJ behavior.

I do see all of that; but I think you're missing the big picture and getting caught up on specific traits rather than overall aura and look and feel. Joel still has a lot of "play" in his personality, he's just very self-protective and fearful and it's those things you are noticing and reading as Si+Fe. Maybe it just helps that I've known a variety of Ti+Ne and Fi+Ne people, so I've seen this pattern play out before.

You're also looking at Joel's judgments as more Fe, whereas really Clem was violating Joel's sensibilities on a PERSONAL level and not the overt social... he does NOT care about whether she conforms to society's standards of a good person, he's bent because she's violating him as a person, within context of their relationship (which is Fi). If they weren't dating, he wouldn't bother to judge her, he'd find her sort of enticing and alive; Fe standards however usually lead to Clem getting blacklisted right away because she's not a "good member of society."

Also interesting would be a comparison of an SFJ male's structure imposed on environment (which would use Si+Fe as the organizing style) versus an NFP male's structure (which tends to access Te instead).

 

[Qre:us]

she's such the enfp!

I thought that too, although I'm not great at typing, but, if that wasn't Ne-overload....well, damn!

 

[Bougal]

I need to watch it again, but from what I remember I would think ESFP and ISFJ would be correct.

 

[Edgar]

I do see all of that; but I think you're missing the big picture and getting caught up on specific traits rather than overall aura and look and feel. Joel still has a lot of "play" in his personality, he's just very self-protective and fearful and it's those things you are noticing and reading as Si+Fe. Maybe it just helps that I've known a variety of Ti+Ne and Fi+Ne people, so I've seen this pattern play out before.

You're also looking at Joel's judgments as more Fe, whereas really Clem was violating Joel's sensibilities on a PERSONAL level and not the overt social... he does NOT care about whether she conforms to society's standards of a good person, he's bent because she's violating him as a person, within context of their relationship (which is Fi). If they weren't dating, he wouldn't bother to judge her, he'd find her sort of enticing and alive; Fe standards however usually lead to Clem getting blacklisted right away because she's not a "good member of society."

I thought the "big picture" was the value Joel put on his memories, and the general sense of nostalgia for the past (an overtly SJ theme).

Also, Joel was not in the position to blacklist anyone from his life, being a lonely and forgotten creature... even then, for the most part he played a passive role in the relationship, with clementine making all the moves, and only in the end of the movie did he finally fully accept her despite all her flaws.

 

[VagrantFarce]

My first instinct would be to place him as INTP, but only because he's Charlie Kaufman's stand-in for the film. He's so damn neurotic around people. ("completely incapable of talking to a member of the opposite sex").

 

[OrangeAppled]

I thought that too, although I'm not great at typing, but, if that wasn't Ne-overload....well, damn!

My impression also. She reminds me of every ENFP woman I've ever known, but not of the ESFPs I know. My ENFP ex-best friend was sooo much like her, right down to the appearance (crazy hair colors, ugly orange sweatshirt). ESFPs don't seem quite as random and all over the place to me. She seems run by Ne whims.

I don't think Joel is ISFJ because SF men seem more traditionally masculine on the surface. NF men tend to wear their sensitivity more openly. ISFJs also display a social warmth and sense of duty his character lacked. NFs love to romanticize the past and can be very critical if people don't meet their high ideals. His journal seems NF too, not SJ.

I think Joel is an INFJ. He seems turn-offed by ignorance of etiquette, like when Clementine took the food off his plate, and he doesn't want to go into the empty house. INFPs probably wouldn't be as concerned with those social rules. We're usually up for spontaneity and informality.

 

[Totenkindly]

I thought the "big picture" was the value Joel put on his memories, and the general sense of nostalgia for the past (an overtly SJ theme).

again, tertiary Si.

I love this movie, it was VERY evocative for me... and I'm most definitively NOT ISFJ. The nostaligic thing is one reference point I find in common with ISFJs though.... INxP can have extremely strong Si if they're very introverted in general.. it's the Ji + Si combo at work.

Also, Joel was not in the position to blacklist anyone from his life, being a lonely and forgotten creature... even then, for the most part he played a passive role in the relationship, with clementine making all the moves, and only in the end of the movie did he finally fully accept her despite all her flaws.

Exactly. Why does this make him ISFJ per se?

I'll give you, though, that this particular frame is reminiscent of Charlie Brown (ISFJ).

 

[Edgar]

again, tertiary Si.

I love this movie, it was VERY evocative for me... and I'm most definitively NOT ISFJ. The nostaligic thing is one reference point I find in common with ISFJs though.... INxP can have extremely strong Si if they're very introverted in general.. it's the Ji + Si combo at work.



Exactly. Why does this make him ISFJ per se?

You say "exactly" yet in a previous post you said an ISFJ would have "blacklisted" someone of clementine's character, so there seems to be some discontent between what you are saying (or am I missing something?)

In any case, INFP love tends to be longing, poetic, very encompassing yet somewhat fleeting. ISFJ love tends to be more tightnit and dependable. It takes longer to get ISFJs love, but once you're in, chances are you are set for life.

Joel was very stingy with his feelings in general, very mindful of his expressions of it. Clamentine basically barged into his protective fort of feelings, and caught him off guard. To mitigate that he tried to "clean up" the house by erasing the memory.

I think a good example of INFP love is Dr Zhivago, which to me is quite distinct from that of Joel in Eternal Sunshine.

That's my impressions of it anyway. I can't get into a cognitive function aspect of it because I don't follow cognitive functions - I see them as unreliable type indicators.

 

[Giggly]

My first instinct would be to place him as INTP, but only because he's Charlie Kaufman's stand-in for the film. He's so damn neurotic around people. ("completely incapable of talking to a member of the opposite sex").

TBH, that was my first instinct too, but then I changed my mind. Now I'm back to INFx again. I think if Joel were ISFJ, he would have been less open to clementine's eccentric ways from the moment he met her.

ISFJ love tends to be more tightnit and dependable. It takes longer to get ISFJs love, but once you're in, chances are you are set for life.

It didn't take long at all for him to fall in love with her. He fell in love with her from the moment he saw her and he even said in the movie that he falls in love instantaneously with every woman he encounters. He was quite open-minded when he came to who he initially got involved with, even though he was judgmental later on in the relationship. He took whatever came easy to him. This is what screams INTP to me, and actually, I've seen a few INTJs act this way too.

 

[Edgar]

This is what screams INTP to me, and actually, I've seen a few INTJs act this way too.

Really? INTJs?

 

[Giggly]

Really? INTJs?

Want girls who make it easy for them and then toss them out after they get what they want? Heck yeah.....but I digress. Joel was too feely to be an INTx.

 

[Edgar]

Want girls who make it easy for them and then toss them out after they get what they want? Heck yeah.....

For a second there I thought you meant that some INTJs "fall in love instantaneously".