Shirley Manson

[Thursday]

The Lead Singer for Garbage........I'm thinking ISTJ

 

[Lethe]

I have always thought Shirley is an ENFP. That fire, that passion, that self-assertion...she vaguely reminds me of CaptainChick.

 

[sleuthiness]

I think she's a lowkey enfp.

But yeah, it can be easy to mix up opposites if the person doesn't openly play to their type's stereotypes.

 

[dynamiteninja]

Not ESFP then?

 

[Thursday]

I have always thought Shirley is an ENFP. That fire, that passion, that self-assertion...she vaguely reminds me of CaptainChick.

so says the multi-faceted soul....so it be true.

 

[LadyJaye]

She is so ST, sorry guys.

I'm gonna say ISTP or ISTJ.

 

[Lethe]

so says the multi-faceted soul....so it be true.

Haha.

She is so ST, sorry guys.

I'm gonna say ISTP or ISTJ.

Hmmm, I'd rather peg her as anything but ISTJ. She fits into the EXXP persona. (IMO, ENFP. She definitely has a major Fi 'march-to-her-own-beat' ambition going on, in an intuitive manner.)

Shirley Manson Interview

Extroversion/Adapting:

I've got a lot of stamina and I enjoy people, so having lots of people around doesn't freak me out," she shrugs. "Also, I'm not homey, I'm really adaptable, so I'm really well-equipped emotionally to deal with the pressures that come with being in a band."

Major feeling (esp. Fi):

When we finally find a coffee shop the girl serving us goes beetrootcoloured and can't even look Shirley in the eyes. Shirley chats easily, including the girl in the conversation, and is effortlessly polite and friendly. We get back in the car and I mention that the girl seemed really freaked out and that is was sweet of Shirley to try and put her at ease. She shrugs and smiles, "I'm very sensitive to how other people are feeling. I think it's a female thing - I want to alleviate any embarrassment or nervousness that they might be suffering.

ALISON POWELL: Do you consider yourself a rebel?

SHIRLEY MANSON: That's a difficult question, because to consider yourself a rebel is sort of ridiculous. But at the same time, I am well aware that I've always sort of woven my own weave. I mean, I tend to do my own thing, and that usually crosses purposes with everyone around me. It's definitely an intrinsic part of my makeup that makes me want to see black when everyone else is seeing white.

Feburary Interview

Shirley's all made up and ready to be snapped, but she isn't quite as at ease as she was. She goes very quiet once I front of the camera and mutters to the photographer that she always feels "such a twat" having her picture taken. I decide it's probably best to stay out of her way - from what I've heard, you don't mess with Shirley when she's in a bad mood. Later, back at the hotel - after a much-needed beer - she's cheered up immeasurably, so much so that I feel brave enough to touch on the subject of her famous bad temper.

She understands because Shirley was, and still is, a fan too. She often talks about music being her salvation when she was a depressed, suicidal teenager, and now this notoriously insecure and self-deprecating woman is an idol herself. Scary, huh?

"No, I like being a role model because I know how much comfort my musical idols brought me. I like the feeling that I'm giving young women self-confidence. It sounds so clichéd, but it can be very moving. I get letters from young women who tell me 'I wanted to commit suicide and then I heard your record and it made me feel empowered. Now I'm feeling much better and I'm back at school and getting great grades' and I feel like 'Yes! Let's go girl!'." She jumps in the air, giving an imaginary high five to this fan she's just "saved". This isn't usual pop start monotone reciting how important his/her fans are with all the sincerity of a Tory MP. This is Shirley.

"I have a temper on me that could hold back tides. It's not something I'm proud of but it exists, and I try and keep it away from people that don't deserve it. There's a side to me that's sweet and nice, but if somebody fucks with me then I'll fuck with them back. And I'll wipe the floor with them. It's as simple as that. I'm not frightened of anybody, I'm not intimidated by anybody, but if everyone is nice to me then I'll be nice back."

So that'll be why people constantly call you stuff like fiery, feisty, tough-talking etc... "If you have any opinions at all or if you're even remotely verbal then they're going to call you fiery. I don't think they can deal with someone being complex and contradictory; it's not acceptable, you have to be a cartoon, a stereotype. I am a contradictory mess but I see it as my prerogative to change my mood like the weather. And nobody's going to make me do otherwise. I've been like this since I was born. You could go back to Edinburgh and ask anybody and they'll tell you that I've always been the same."

What's so special about Ms Manson is that she doesn't get sucked in by the parties and free coke that many other artists seem so impressed by. "A lot of people these days are not music lovers - they just want to be famous which is a very different thing to what I grew up believing in. A lot of celebrities just want money, fame, power, fancy cars, houses all over the world and have people bow down to them. To me, that's frightful behaviour. A lot of my friends are artists or musicians or single parent families and I'm totally aware of how difficult it is for them to make ends meet. I couldn't feel good about myself hanging out in Armani clothes when my girlfriend can't even pay her heating bill. I'd feel foul and I'd be embarrassed."

 

[Lauren Ashley]

She is so ST, sorry guys.

I'm gonna say ISTP or ISTJ.

I'll agree with ISTJ, it's pretty blatant from interviews. On a related note, I think it's amazing how some can appear to be their opposite types; I see Angelina Jolie typed as ENFJ here, and I think she's STP. That means there is hope for my ESTP alter ego, yet!

 

[LadyJaye]

I'll agree with ISTJ, it's pretty blatant from interviews. On a related note, I think it's amazing how some can appear to be their opposite types; I see Angelina Jolie typed as ENFJ here, and I think she's STP. That means there is hope for my ESTP alter ego, yet!

I know. I think Angelina is an ESTP too. That would make sense with Brad Pitt being an ISTJ.

 

[Lethe]

I'll agree with ISTJ, it's pretty blatant from interviews.

I think Natalie Portman is a better representative of an ISTJ: calmer, private, equally stubborn, considerably less energetic and certain about showing her personal values, less spontaneous, more diligent/controlled in responding (example: no surprise temper explosions), etc.

I see Angelina Jolie typed as ENFJ here, and I think she's STP.

As an off-topic point, I agree with the ESTP type for Angelina. She has very-well developed (tertiary) Fe and (inferior) Ni, along with Se and Ti. In her earlier years, she was more of a brash thrill-seeker than she is now.

 

[OrangeAppled]

No way she is ISTJ . I'd need to hear an extremely well thought out argument for that. She enjoys freaking people out way too much; she used to enjoy telling a story of how she pooped in her boyfriend's cornflakes cuz she was pissed off at him.

I'm a huge fan of her, & have read nearly every interview with her, all of her old blog/online diaries, & know tons about her. She's an ENFx, and I'm leaning towards ENFP.

I also think her bandmate Duke is an IxTJ, and they have the ENFP-IxTJ chemistry happening. They used to be the closest in the band, but then had a falling out.

How is this not a feeler?

Someone once told me, "Shirley your feelings are highjacking your brain. It's holding a gun against your head and you are paralyzed by your feelings. Nobody cares about your feelings. Your feelings don't mean shit." And it took a mile for that penny to drop. And she's right. She said, "You keep running up against the wall, banging your head against the wall, turning around and you're all bloody and you're wondering why nothing has changed. You need to change your mind and you need to walk behind the wall. Just change your mind, walk around the wall. The wall won't change. You change."

If your feelings are leading you to a good place that's one thing, but if your feelings are leading you to complete inertia or depression or whatever it is then something has to change and you can change it. That's easier said than done.

CBV: How long were you a cutter and how did you get past it?

SM: About two years. That was part of my teenage development. And, then I joined a band and found a way of articulating what was going on inside and found an outlet to let it out. As an adult I realized I was a very hypersensitive child and I'm still hypersensitive. And, I grew up in a family where that was seen as a negative and I've come to realize it was a great gift.

Ne anyone?

Last night I woke up in the middle of the night and I thought to myself " I need to find a way to make my life exciting again" and I really meant it but when I woke up this morning I wasn't quite so sure I was certain of my own meaning and how I was going to attend to it.How do you make your life exciting? And what exactly IS exciting anyway?!?!?!

 

[Lethe]

No way she is ISTJ . I'd need to hear an extremely well thought out argument for that. She enjoys freaking people out way too much; she used to enjoy telling a story of how she pooped in her boyfriend's cornflakes cuz she was pissed off at him.

Though I would gladly invite Shirley into the ITJ club, I could already feel something devouring my insides, if I, or any ISTJ/INTJ, ever shared that much personal information with the public. She shows everyone her deepest self, and is perhaps energized by that decision. An IXXJ, particularly ITJ, would usually reveal enough to get things done, and even this is executed with some hesitancy.

IXTJs could feel as strongly as Shirley, but I doubt they would (normally) act on these impulses... or readily admit them. We're not exactly the wear-our-feelings-on-our-sleeves bunch, especially not without thorough consideration.

 

[sleuthiness]

I think Natalie Portman is a better representative of an ISTJ: calmer, private, equally stubborn, considerably less energetic and certain about showing her personal values, less spontaneous, more diligent/controlled in responding (example: no surprise temper explosions), etc.

Watch/listen Portman talk to Letterman. The conversation moves too smoothly for her not to be isfj. You always know Dave's feeling comfortable if he's tripping over his words the entire interview.

 

[Lethe]

Watch/listen Portman talk to Letterman. The conversation moves too smoothly for her not to be isfj. You always know Dave's feeling comfortable if he's tripping over his words the entire interview.

I would argue the Fe is actually due to Si dom: community-oriented, external awareness, proper attitude, etc.

Here's an excerpt of the ISTJ description via Berens:

A sense of right and wrong is extremely important, and I will not just stand by and watch people doing things wrong. It really tears me apart. I tend to want things in order and people doing the right things. I want to have some rules. I always wanted to please people, and a safe environment to me is where I don’t have to compete with anyone else’s wishes. If I get into a situation where I feel very strongly and can’t articulate the words or can’t win, I just don’t say anything. I tend to put up with conflict rather than deal with it. I try to deal with stress, but I am not necessarily a good confronter. I would like to be more of a stress avoider.

ISTJ Profile

Compared to ISFJ:

I dislike conflict. I really care about treating people with a lot of respect. It’s an emotional drain when I have to deal with different opinions and reconcile everyone. I give an opinion based on what I think is fair and what’s been done in the past. What’s decided for one person shouldn’t be really any different than for another. I respect that people are certainly entitled to feel the way they feel, but in working or living together, decisions have to be made and things have to go a certain way. I need positive feedback that I’m doing a good job and that my opinions are similar to the opinions of others, to hear, “Yes, I think that same thing.” I worry when there’s disagreement. I question myself. I’ve learned to challenge what I don’t feel is right, especially if someone does something to me that I don’t feel I would have done to that person.

ISFJ Profile

^ See how Natalie's Fi pales to an ISFJ's active role in harmonizing interactions. Any smooth interaction from Natalie would be attributed to her natural self-preservation tendency.

(Further responses should be carried into the NP thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-type/1234-natalie-portman-s-type.html )

 

[the state i am in]

she seems esfp to me. her lyrics show no Ne to me whatsoever (tho i only looked at 7 or 8 songs). she behaves more like an esfp, very aware of her environment, very in her body. she isn't wacky enough to be an enfp, particularly funny in any of the intervierws i watched, or super creative. she seems like her look and attitude are most of what she offers. an it's ok to be "dark" kind of thing, without really showing serious understanding of anything. her perceptions are not compelling to me, but i could be totally missing the boat, and i often judge people more so as writers than as overall people when i haven't done the research.

 

[OrangeAppled]

she seems esfp to me. her lyrics show no Ne to me whatsoever (tho i only looked at 7 or 8 songs). she behaves more like an esfp, very aware of her environment, very in her body. she isn't wacky enough to be an enfp, particularly funny in any of the intervierws i watched, or super creative. she seems like her look and attitude are most of what she offers. an it's ok to be "dark" kind of thing, without really showing serious understanding of anything. her perceptions are not compelling to me, but i could be totally missing the boat, and i often judge people more so as writers than as overall people when i haven't done the research.

I find her funny, on stage & in interviews. ESFPs are often funny also, so I don't see how that's a distinction. Although, having been close to many ESFPs and ENFPs, I see her humor closer to the latter. She has that wicked sort of teasing that ENFPs tend to have.

When you hear her talk about her idols like Siouxie Sioux and Patti Smith, you see her image isn't all about look. She talks about clothes being an extension of her inner self & stuff like that.

Her taste in literature doesn't say sensor to me either. She was reading a musical theory book once, and discussing it in her diary. I just don't see th average ESFP being into that.