The Beatles?

[the state i am in]

i'm now convinced about entp as well. the interviews online feel more entp than anything else. DEFINITELY not infp, i don't know how that makes any sense. i think everyone assumes any E4 type is automatically an infp, but i'm guessing entp 4w3. also, he's a prick, but i'm becoming more sympathetic.

at least dick cavett is an N, the rest of the questioners, jesus christ, i'd go crazy too. i kinda dig yoko, they seem like a fucking awesome couple.

george i see as ifj, i can't decide on infj or isfj. or explain the traveling wilburys and all his isfp friends. he could be an isfp, but there are other infj songwriters who end up making nice with the isfp songwriters too. feel at home for some reason.

 

[Sarcasticus]

also, he's a prick, but i'm becoming more sympathetic.

Heh, why so?

 

[the state i am in]

Heh, why so?

this question is why infjs are infjs and entps are entps.

i get his purpose and mostly dig it, but at the same time, it is difficult for me to treat others the way he does. it's more blatant using people's feelings to manipulate them, get what you want, prove a point, make a fool of them, etc.

entps are oh so often in love with spectacle.

infjs prefer less aggression. aggression = prick.

 

[Sarcasticus]

this question is why infjs are infjs and entps are entps.

i get his purpose and mostly dig it, but at the same time, it is difficult for me to treat others the way he does. it's more blatant using people's feelings to manipulate them, get what you want, prove a point, make a fool of them, etc.

entps are oh so often in love with spectacle.

infjs prefer less aggression. aggression = prick.

Ok. *shrug* I thought it was some act in particular.

 

[simulatedworld]

Despite his brash and somewhat confrontational public persona he was actually quite introverted and famously reclusive. During the 1960s when McCartney was running around swinging London, John was content to stay home with his family in the suburbs. I'd grant that he could be between E and I though.

I say he's an NF because of his love of word-play and the fact that he was quite gifted lyically. Usually NF tendencies.

Being gifted with word play and lyrics is absolutely not any more NF than it is NT. That's ridiculous.

 

[Sarcasticus]

Being gifted with word play and lyrics is absolutely not any more NF than it is NT. That's ridiculous.

Well you're entitled to your opinion as am I. But the preponderance of writers being NFs suggests otherwise.

 

[sleuthiness]

Nice argument above for John as entp.

george i see as ifj, i can't decide on infj or isfj. or explain the traveling wilburys and all his isfp friends. he could be an isfp, but there are other infj songwriters who end up making nice with the isfp songwriters too. feel at home for some reason.

Why not intp? Certainly lazy enough to have a pness. He was close with Eric Clapton, and isn't Petty intp? I have a good intp friend who is both a computer science major and into the spiritual/mythical without engraving a single theology on his forehead, so dreamy intps do exist.

 

[the state i am in]

petty and clapton are isfp i thought? he doesn't have the intp eyes. i see Fe all over the place, not Fi. and j introverted perception as dominant function. he's uncomfortable whenever i see him talking. eastern spiritualism (particularly japanese and chinese, not necessarily hindu) was made for and by Ni doms. i don't see Ti dom.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I've looked into John's background the most, and I've also watched some interviews with him, and I'm convinced he's ENFP. It's true he's a lot like an ENTP, but he's got so much NF in him I can't really see how anyone can deny it. "Imagine" is an NF song, so is "Give Peace a Chance", and there are a lot of other songs where it comes through. Also he would do stuff like "love ins" and just go around promoting the word "peace" without much of a well thought out and developed message. It's a whole lot of NF and not too much T.

I still really like his music, but he's an ENFP.

 

[sleuthiness]

I've looked into John's background the most, and I've also watched some interviews with him, and I'm convinced he's ENFP. It's true he's a lot like an ENTP, but he's got so much NF in him I can't really see how anyone can deny it. "Imagine" is an NF song, so is "Give Peace a Chance", and there are a lot of other songs where it comes through. Also he would do stuff like "love ins" and just go around promoting the word "peace" without much of a well thought out and developed message. It's a whole lot of NF and not too much T.

I still really like his music, but he's an ENFP.

Wayne Coyne (entp) has pulled the peace schtick plenty, I wouldn't rule out Stimulated's argument.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

Also he would do stuff like "love ins" and just go around promoting the word "peace" without much of a well thought out and developed message.

At the risk of bad-mouthing my own kind, ENTPs aren't exactly known for exploring issues with depth and precision.


Our talent lies in innovation and breadth, however, so I'm not criticizing that quality.

 

[the state i am in]

i find the argument for nf unconvincing, but i don't like keirsey's temperaments anyway. nts are concerned with social progress too, especially if they team up with an enfj yoko. he's still talking about peace more than individual self-actualization regardless.

if nfs do anything, it's seeing ways in which individuals can better meet their own individually needs collectively. it's using feeling to relate to people's PERSONAL VALUES and slowly show them new possibilities, whereas lennon and nts just say, stop being so fucking stupid and be more logical with your personal values so they don't ruin the lives of others.

 

[simulatedworld]

Well you're entitled to your opinion as am I. But the preponderance of writers being NFs suggests otherwise.

Why should F lend itself to creative invention any more than T?

You've made a mistake by assuming that "more NFs are writers than NTs" proves that NFs are better at it. Why couldn't it just be that NTs see less reason to pursue writing as a serious career or avocation? It doesn't really say anything about who's naturally better at it, just about who's more inclined to attempt it. Big difference.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

whereas lennon and nts just say, stop being so fucking stupid and be more logical with your personal values so they don't ruin the lives of others.

I really appreciate you saying this, because it's something I believe in very strongly, and sometimes it seems like people overlook this. Thank you for recognizing it.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

At the risk of bad-mouthing my own kind, ENTPs aren't exactly known for exploring issues with depth and precision.


Our talent lies in innovation and breadth, however, so I'm not criticizing that quality.

This depends on the ENTP. An undeveloped ENTP won't have much depth and precision in thinking. They also won't be terribly effective either when it comes to innovation. They will be more like the Cosmo Kramer type of ENTP.

On the other hand John was a musical genius. (So were George and Paul for that matter.) A person can't be that effective without a well developed auxiliary function. Music relies much more on F than T for inspiration and John's lyrics show that. His Feeling was well developed, but his Thinking was not. This is because he was an ENFP.

 

[Sarcasticus]

Why should F lend itself to creative invention any more than T?

You've made a mistake by assuming that "more NFs are writers than NTs" proves that NFs are better at it. Why couldn't it just be that NTs see less reason to pursue writing as a serious career or avocation? It doesn't really say anything about who's naturally better at it, just about who's more inclined to attempt it. Big difference.

We're talking about someone who's actually a writer (he wrote two books not to mention a couple hundred songs) not just thinks about it in the abstract. You've made the mistake of assuming aptitude = application. I said in my original statement that word-play and lyric ability are usually the domain of NFs. Not exclusively.

 

[Sarcasticus]

This depends on the ENTP. An undeveloped ENTP won't have much depth and precision in thinking. They also won't be terribly effective either when it comes to innovation. They will be more like the Cosmo Kramer type of ENTP.

On the other hand John was a musical genius. (So were George and Paul for that matter.) A person can't be that effective without a well developed auxiliary function. Music relies much more on F than T for inspiration and John's lyrics show that. His Feeling was well developed, but his Thinking was not. This is because he was an ENFP.

I think one reason we're going back and forth between ENTP and ENFP is because of his obviously well-developed primary Ne which comes through in his wit. Seems pretty clear he has to be one of those types. Though he's famously introverted and reclusive outside of the spotlight, so I was leaning more towards a 50/50 split.

He's admitted in interviews that his brash and confrontational exterior was a cover because inside he was sensitive and easily wounded. Seems like the kind of compensatory machismo that NF males are said to exhibit.

 

[INTJMom]

Jeffster says that Paul McCartney is an ISFP.
I can see that.

 

[Sarcasticus]

Jeffster says that Paul McCartney is an ISFP.
I can see that.

Paul's way too much of a Mr. Showbiz ham to be an introvert. He was the one always cheerleading the others to go on tour. Enneagram type 3 too (like Sting).

 

[simulatedworld]

Jeffster says that Paul McCartney is an ISFP.
I can see that.

I wonder if Jeffster has seen Paul McCartney on stage, because I think if he had he'd change his mind to ESFP.

I think one reason we're going back and forth between ENTP and ENFP is because of his obviously well-developed primary Ne which comes through in his wit. Seems pretty clear he has to be one of those types. Though he's famously introverted and reclusive outside of the spotlight, so I was leaning more towards a 50/50 split.

He's admitted in interviews that his brash and confrontational exterior was a cover because inside he was sensitive and easily wounded. Seems like the kind of compensatory machismo that NF males are said to exhibit.

That's also true of numerous NTPs.

Also Ne doms are known for being the most socially withdrawn of E types, because Ne involves the external world but isn't necessarily interested in the people in it.

I just really don't see "He wrote lots of stuff" as any kind of argument for F or T; it's just irrelevant.