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Mad Men

S

Stansmith

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I can see that, but I can also see some INFJ in her. I'm almost completely positive she's INFx, though.

Stansmith, what made you go with the SJ temperament for Pete over NT? He's probably the hardest character for me to type for some reason.

All I get from him is Te-Dom and 6w5. Alot of people type him as 3w2 (he's pretty good at presenting himself as one around clients), but he's the most reactive, paranoid character at the whole firm.


Anyway, I'd say ENTJ since he was pretty ambitious about his vision from the start (getting conservative brands to appeal to the african American market for example). An ESTJ would probably play it safe and be more practical.
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
Some of the typings in this thread are fucking terrible.

Don Draper - ENTJ

.

Don is practical, detached, whimsical and dismisses all 'grand' ideas or any form of psychoanalysis (even if legitimate). No N, no Te, no J.
 

violet_crown

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Messages
4,959
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ENTJ
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853
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Don is practical, detached, whimsical and dismisses all 'grand' ideas or any form of psychoanalysis (even if legitimate). No N, no Te, no J.

Clearly we weren't watching the same show. Then again, I wouldnt expect someone who was unable to recoginze a preference for Te/Fi in themselves to be able to parse it out in others.
 

DoctorCroupy#9

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All I get from him is Te-Dom and 6w5. Alot of people type him as 3w2 (he's pretty good at presenting himself as one around clients), but he's the most reactive, paranoid character at the whole firm.

Anyway, I'd say ENTJ since he was pretty ambitious about his vision from the start (getting conservative brands to appeal to the african American market for example). An ESTJ would probably play it safe and be more practical.

Oh okay, yeah I can see that. I just couldn't see him being an Sdom at all for some reason. I can definitely agree with ENTx. Everything he seems to stand for and present to the company is very big picture and radical when compared to the more conservative ideals of the other partners (mainly Roger, a definite Sdom). Something about him though still makes me think he's an ENTP trying to project the image of a J. Like Wind-Up Rex said earlier, he has these random moments where he just starts talking that seem so TP. He's probably pretty balanced on the P/J scale.

Clearly we weren't watching the same show. Then again, I wouldnt expect someone who was unable to recoginze a preference for Te/Fi in themselves to be able to parse it out in others.

Do you really not see Don as an introvert? That's one of the first things I noticed about him and it's been apparent in his character throughout the series for me. I'm pretty positive he's INTx. I go back and forth between J and P.
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
Oh okay, yeah I can see that. I just couldn't see him being an Sdom at all for some reason. I can definitely agree with ENTx. Everything he seems to stand for and present to the company is very big picture and radical when compared to the more conservative ideals of the other partners (mainly Roger, a definite Sdom). Something about him though still makes me think he's an ENTP trying to project the image of a J. Like Wind-Up Rex said earlier, he has these random moments where he just starts talking that seem so TP. He's probably seems pretty balanced on the P/J scale.



Do you really not see Don as an introvert? That's one of the first things I noticed about him and it's been apparent in his character throughout the series for me. I'm pretty positive he's INTx. I go back and forth between J and P.

Roger is a better example of ETP. He's whimsical, 'patient', easy going, has fun with work, and prefers to sit back, give people vague orders and leave them to their own devices than bark out concrete inflexible orders like an ETJ (he only does that when he's really pissed). Pete on the other hand takes work seriously 99% of the time, gets easily frustrated and always has to make sure things are perfect. The NeTi-approach is more laissez-fare and flexible.



Ti is more "lets see how this works out, it most likely will", while Te is more "this will and mustwork out".
 

violet_crown

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Do you really not see Don as an introvert? That's one of the first things I noticed about him and it's been apparent in his character throughout the series for me. I'm pretty positive he's INTx. I go back and forth between J and P.

I think that Don is without question Te/Fi>Ti/Fe. His way of thinking is just too familiar to me for him to be otherwise. What made me believe ENTJ for him is that he uses Ni rather than identifies with Ni. Some of my favorite moments from the show are watching Don go through the creative process, and he's striving to articulate the heart of some brand. The deeper urges and desires that it should evoke, or the grander context into which this brand must be interwoven to create a compelling narrative for the advertisement. Those moments are pure Ni, but Don doesn't really exist in that space, if that makes sense.

I don't buy that he's ISTP because the way that ISTPs use tert Ni is more of a wordless kind of knowing. It's like they can pick the next big thing long before it hits in this very organic kind of way. They don't necessarily know why they know, they just know that it is such and such a way. I think Don just articulates his Ni impressions too fluidly for him to be ISTP.

As for the appearance of an introvert, I'd attribute that to his 8w9ness and his inferior Fi. As a group, I consider us to be fairly taciturn. Not to mention enormously self-involved. Don is too blessedly unaware of anything but his own self to possibly be anything but an Fi user, and a little too reckless to be an INTJ imo. He doesn't think he just does, but in a way that's a little too high concept for it to be an STP. Just think about the ad that he took out against the cigarette company in the second or third season. It was like, he had just enough Ni to create a massive mess, and just shy of enough to have thought through the consequences of his actions a bit better. That's Te-Se in it's full glory right there.

Being real with you, my belief that Don and I share a type is mostly informed by just a gut recognition of the character that I have pretty infrequently. Despite having virtually nothing in common, I saw myself in Don's character. That may be a function of good writing, but I sure don't identify with Walter White or Omar Little like that.
 

violet_crown

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After some soul searching, I'm making the following corrections to my first crack at the typings --


Peggy Olson - IFJ (could go either way re: N/S) INFJ
Pete Campbell - ESFJ
Ken Cosgrove - Not sure. Leaning towards ISTP. INTP
Bertram Cooper - Not sure. Probably ESTJ. INFJ
 

DoctorCroupy#9

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Roger is a better example of ETP. He's whimsical, 'patient', easy going, has fun with work, and prefers to sit back, give people vague orders and leave them to their own devices than bark out concrete inflexible orders like an ETJ (he only does that when he's really pissed). Pete on the other hand takes work seriously 99% of the time, gets easily frustrated and always has to make sure things are perfect. The NeTi-approach is more laissez-fare and flexible.
Ti is more "lets see how this works out, it most likely will", while Te is more "this will and mustwork out".

Totally agree that Roger is a more straight forward example of an ETP type. That kind of supports what I mean. Like I've said, I feel Pete tries to present himself as ENTJ outwardly. I think a lot of that has to do with how he was raised. He wants to be successful so badly, and wants to be rich. He thinks that the only way to do it is to put on this ENTJ mask, and act how he believes successful men act. Notice that if he IS an ENTJ, he's the most conniving and hardass ENTJ around. Practically characature. Every once in a while, he takes that mask off (like in some of his more serious conversations with Peggy) and says things that come off as very P. He seems very at ease with himself in moments like that. It's almost like he's a different person. I have a feeling that's partly why he's so resentful of Roger. Roger was born into it all, and has no stress. He can think however he wants and be as carefree and fun as he wants, but Pete knows that he has to put all of his effort into it, and keep a rigid way of doing things or he could lose his apartment. Which I think is why he seems so fake when he's making business decisions or doing things with clients. There isn't room for the trial and error.

So actually, I do agree with you that Pete is, for the most part, a total ENTJ. It's just that I have a feeling that under all of that, it's not really him. It's not what he really wants to be. Which could explain why he's so depressed acting. Why he has so much, and yet feels as if he "has nothing".


(By the way, I realize I'm reaching here xD It's just a strong hunch I have.)

I think that Don is without question Te/Fi>Ti/Fe. His way of thinking is just too familiar to me for him to be otherwise. What made me believe ENTJ for him is that he uses Ni rather than identifies with Ni. Some of my favorite moments from the show are watching Don go through the creative process, and he's striving to articulate the heart of some brand. The deeper urges and desires that it should evoke, or the grander context into which this brand must be interwoven to create a compelling narrative for the advertisement. Those moments are pure Ni, but Don doesn't really exist in that space, if that makes sense.

I don't buy that he's ISTP because the way that ISTPs use tert Ni is more of a wordless kind of knowing. It's like they can pick the next big thing long before it hits in this very organic kind of way. They don't necessarily know why they know, they just know that it is such and such a way. I think Don just articulates his Ni impressions too fluidly for him to be ISTP.

As for the appearance of an introvert, I'd attribute that to his 8w9ness and his inferior Fi. As a group, I consider us to be fairly taciturn. Not to mention enormously self-involved. Don is too blessedly unaware of anything but his own self to possibly be anything but an Fi user, and a little too reckless to be an INTJ imo. He doesn't think he just does, but in a way that's a little too high concept for it to be an STP. Just think about the ad that he took out against the cigarette company in the second or third season. It was like, he had just enough Ni to create a massive mess, and just shy of enough to have thought through the consequences of his actions a bit better. That's Te-Se in it's full glory right there.

Being real with you, my belief that Don and I share a type is mostly informed by just a gut recognition of the character that I have pretty infrequently. Despite having virtually nothing in common, I saw myself in Don's character. That may be a function of good writing, but I sure don't identify with Walter White or Omar Little like that.

That's an interesting way to look at it. I dunno if I'd say you've convinced me he's not an introvert, but it definitely doesn't sound as far-fetched now that I understand your reasoning haha.
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
[MENTION=16891]Sgt. Pepper[/MENTION]

He seems like he's tapping into Fi during those intimate moments. When he's at his very worst, he becomes melancholy, self-pitying and overly romantic in a very "you're the only person in the world who understands me" type of way where he practically disregards the actual feelings of the other person.
 

DoctorCroupy#9

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Hm, I never thought about Pete as an Fi user. He just seems so Fe to me, the way he successfully schmoozes his clients in a not so sincere way. Anytime he seems to 'feel' anything, it seems to be projected. When something terrible happens, he reads the room and knows what face to put on to suit the situation best. He sympathizes, but never really seems to empathize.
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
Joey forgotten season 4 douchebag): ENTP 7w8 - 3w4 - 1w? So/Sx

Joan's Ex Husband: ESTP 6w5 - 3w2 - 8w9 So/Sp

Henry Francis: ISTJ 3w4 - ?w? - 1w9 Sp/So
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
I think I'm finally getting a hang of the stackings:

Don: Sp/Sx

Pete: So/Sp

Bert: Sp/Sx

Roger: Sx/So

Joan: Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp

Betty: Sp/Sx

Megan: Sx/Sp; she's always trying to include people in her relationship with Don which is strange for an Sx-first (perhaps it's Fe-Dom + 2w3), but her general demeanor is very Sx/Sp.

Sal: Sp/So

Lane: Sp/So

Peggy: Sp/So or So/Sp

Ken: So/Sx or So/Sp

Harry: Sp/So in early seasons, So/Sx in latter seasons

Stan: Sx/So

Ginsberg: So/Sx

Sally: Sp/Sx or Sp/So

Kinsey: So/Sp

Bob Benson: So/Sx
 

ahopster

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I think this show is magnificent!

Don Draper: ISFP
Peggy Olson: INTJ
Pete Campbell: ESFP
Betty Draper: ISFJ
Joan Harris: ESFJ
Ken Cosgrove: ENFP
Roger Sterling: ESTP
Sally Draper: ENFP
Bertram Cooper: INTJ
Salvatore Romano: INFJ
Paul Kinsey: ENTP
Trudy Campbell: ISFJ
Lane Pryce: ISTJ
Harry Crane: ISTJ
 

cascadeco

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I would say

Don Draper - ISTP, mostly due to dynamic and contrast with Megan, and also E seems to be a hat he puts on vs him actually being an extrovert. Though [MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION] has a compelling case for ENTJ; I just think ISTP would more naturally pair with Megan's type. Regardless, I think he's T-dom, and most definitely an Se user.
Peggy Olson -IxFJ
Pete Campbell - ENTP probably, though I have doubts (contrast with Kinsey). ExxP for sure though I think
Betty Draper - tough one. I really really lean towards ISTJ, even though I know popular opinion is ISFx. I don't think she's an Fe user at all though, so ISFP would be my second guess.
Joan Harris - ENFJ seems likely, though possibly ESFP
Ken Cosgrove - ? I think an Fe user, that's all I've got
Roger Sterling - ESTP
Bertram Cooper - INxJ
Salvatore Romano - Leaning towards INFJ? Is probably an introvert
Paul Kinsey - ENTP
Trudy Campbell - ESFJ
Harry Crane - I think ISTJ
Megan - ENFx, I can't decide
Layne - ISFJ
Ginsberg - ENFP
 

OrangeAppled

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I just started watching this not long ago... I think I am in season 3 now (or end of season 2). Yeah, I am super late to the party, but that is how I watch TV (which is unusual for me to do at all).
Honestly, some of these typings are awful!

Don Draper - INTJ, 6w5??
Cracks are made on the show about he seems to just be sitting there & thinking half the time. He is a future-focused, idea person, often coming up with a conceptual solution after much meditation. Obvious TJ...he has strong principles and a personal code of ethics (tert Fi) but ultimately goes with what is pragmatic. Lots of inferior Se issues...hedonism he is somewhat ashamed of and tries to hide. His ego is of a controlled person, but his reality is not. He seems most focused on underlying concepts that make up reality - that is why his advertising ideas taps into human psychology, with less focus on anything gimmicky or splashy. He is not an e5 INTJ....I am thinking e6 now, after considering e3, because he has trouble establishing any real loyalty towards others, is ambivalent about his own feelings, and seems very mistrusting in general. He seems to establish his family as a part of security-seeking, not for status. 3s tend to be more extroverted and their ambivalence is about the role they are filling (if it is really who they are or fulfilling for them?), not so much about their relationships. He seems less concerned with his own competency (1,3,5) than having trust issues.

Roger Sterling - ESTP e7w8
A hedonist who likes to be in the moment & experience & indulge in sensual stuff. His feeling doesn't go much beyond establishing quick rapport with people (tert Fe). He doesn't really have any values, but instead likes to have impact on how things happen & to jump on opportunities as they arise (Se). He is less of an idea person than a make-it-happen person. He is generally cheerful and pretty accepting of things as they are, unless he sees very concrete, immediate opportunity for change.

Pete Campbell - ESTJ e3w2
He shows a lot of inferior Fi. He gets upset when people do things out-of-line with his concept of how stuff works, ie, when Don gets away with things that seem to break rules (Te). He is not pleased to be seen as a gregarious, client-charming person, because his ego is set on being someone who leads and controls. He is focused on objective standards and indicators of success, despite how he may really feel, which he often stuffs down to get stuff done (ie his dad dying). He fancies himself an idea person (tertiary Ne), but it's not truly his strong-suit. I see why some guessed ESFP for him, but his Fi is not that strong and he doesn't show much Se at all.

Peggy Olsen - INFP e9w1
She is gentle and meek and socially awkward, but surprisingly has a lot of backbone for what is important to her. She is not traditional at core but not openly rebellious (she quietly does her own thing), and she is an idea person with a way with words and who understands how people truly feel (not how they SHOULD feel or be). I could see her mistaken for ISFJ, but she doesn't really show Fe at all; she is just deceptively sweet in her demeanor. She seems to have a pretty strong sense of who she is at core.

Joan - ESFJ 3w2
This I am less sure of....I went back and forth with this and ESxP, considering ESTP more than ESFP. I see Fe, but perhaps Se more than Si. I get the impression her character gets more attention in later seasons, so I will hold off on a final type. She has the queen bee thing going on, but I also question if she is truly a Feeling type. She doesn't seem people-focused so much as intent on influencing her environment for the sake of power and influence, which strikes me as more Se than Fe. But I think she may fit ESFJ prototypes better in general. She doesn't seem driven by any personal value system at all, but meeting certain external ideals. I get the impression she didn't know what she really wanted until she got what she thought she wanted & it wasn't it - more typical Fe.

Betty - ISFJ e6w5
Super obvious, almost prototypical, except for what I think is a 5 wing. The Fe is in her focus on what is appropriate and what meets external standards of value; the impression is given that she was more exuberant and expressive when she met Don. She is depressed and seems very Si-Ti at times. She doesn't really know who she is or what she wants, just what her mother told her she should be and what is expected of her as a woman now that she's marries (no Fi).


other characters:
Trudy Campbell - ESFJ 2w3
Sal Romano - ENFJ 2w3
Paul Kinsey - ENFP 7w6
Ken Cosgrove - ENFP 7w6 (maybe ENTP)
Bertram Cooper - INxJ, although seems Ne sometimes (INTP?)...the love of Ayn Rand and finickiness about shoes says NJ to me though
 

mintleaf

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Messages
505
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infp
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sp
I agree that Don is an xNTJ, probably INTJ. I just watched the episode where Betty's dad tries to give Bobby the helmet of a Prussian soldier he killed, with the man's blood inside it. Don tells Bobby to give it back: "There was a person in that helmet." [Gene: "An enemy."] "Bobby, it's a dead man's hat. Take it off." Obviously, an Fe user might have responded the same way, but the moment still struck me as very Fi. I've thought xSTP was possible for him because he so clearly favors thinking and Se over Si...but he's not like any ESTP I know, and more obviously complex than any ISTP I know.

as for enneagram, I see him as a self-pres 8. if he's not a gut type, no one is. see this description. "Moving about in the world, 8s are mainly unconscious thinkers. They’re instinctively counterphobic, as compared to E6’s more conscious counterphobia. Thinking about oneself and one’s worries is largely in the subconscious, or perhaps is the work of the reptilian/mammalian brain in 8s. Compared to the other types, their fears are generated less by conscious thought; fears here are mostly instinctual, less susceptible to influence by rational deliberation." if Jon Hamm isn't an 8, then he really is an incredible actor.

I don't know if the character of Joan is well-developed or well-acted enough to have a consistent type. at least in Myers-Briggs. I think Hendrix suited this role well in large part because she is a 2 or 3.
 
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