Lindsay Lohan

[ajblaise]

ESFJ to the max.

 

[Edgar]

ESFJs, like all SJs, put a lot of emphasis on being reputable. ESFPs main goal is to be liked - respectability is an auxiliary benefit. An ESFP is likely to choose an even level friendship over a cold, arms lenght respect one would give to a superior.

A lot of lindsay's behavior is indicative of a fucked up ESFP. Every time samantha throws lindsay's shit out on the curb, lindsay humiliates herself by crying and scratching at the door in full view of papparazzi. And then she doesn't even bother to make an excuse or cover it up. She cannot stand not being liked and will gladly humiliate herself for it. (See also britney spears and paris hilton)

 

[Lauren Ashley]

ESFJs, like all SJs, put a lot of emphasis on being reputable.

Going by the textbook, yes, SJs are buttoned-up and proper. But there are plenty of SJs in real life that don't fit this. I think they place greater importance on status within their particular community. And her community is Hollywood, where people gain rep by covering tabloids. She's plenty reputable there.

A lot of lindsay's behavior is indicative of a fucked up ESFP. Every time samantha throws lindsay's shit out on the curb, lindsay humiliates herself by crying and scratching at the door in full view of papparazzi. And then she doesn't even bother to make an excuse or cover it up. She cannot stand not being liked and will gladly humiliate herself for it.

This is an argument for Fe-dom -- there isn't anything that an Fe type loves more than to be loved. Fe types are also the best with drama, good and bad. Her kind of loyalty, that she's shown to Samantha and her broken up family, is characteristic of SJs, especially xSFJs.

 

[Edgar]

Going by the textbook, yes, SJs are buttoned-up and proper. But there are plenty of SJs in real life that don't fit this. I think they place greater importance on status within their particular community. And her community is Hollywood, where people gain rep by covering tabloids. She's plenty reputable there.

incorrect.

Angelina Jolie and Natalie Portman are "Hollywood reputable"

Lindsay is a traveling circus, a freak show that makes ordinary people feel better about themselves (I.e. I may not be rich and famous but least I'm not fucked up like lindsay)

 

[Strawberrylover]

Jumping into this debate...

And her community is Hollywood, where people gain rep by covering tabloids. She's plenty reputable there.

Lindsay Lohan is NOT reputable even by Hollywood standards. She's fallen from A list to a status so low that she only gains exposure through tabloids, getting paid to attend parties and posting pictures of herself braless on Twitter.

This is an argument for Fe-dom -- there isn't anything that an Fe type loves more than to be loved. Fe types are also the best with drama, good and bad. Her kind of loyalty, that she's shown to Samantha and her broken up family, is characteristic of SJs, especially xSFJs.

I disagree with this as well. Fe-doms are VERY aware of how others feel about their actions and that's their motivating force.

ESFPs are Se Fi Te Ni. Lindsay Lohan is an Se-dom run amok with a poorly developed Fi, which makes perfect sense given how steeped she's been in Hollywood materialism from a young age and having a family life that did not allow her to understand her own feelings.

BTW, I don't think loyalty and ambition are indications of J either. I'm an ENFP and am very loyal and ambitious and one of my friends, an ESFJ, while very directed in her approach to family and friends, is pretty rudderless when it comes to her career.

 

[BlackCat]

How can you tell? She has been hollywooded up, she is an image of what the media wants her to be.

 

[Edgar]

How can you tell? She has been hollywooded up, she is an image of what the media wants her to be.

ehh... You can't really do a "manufactured image" of a star like they did back in the 30s or whatever. There is too much information coming in from all directions so "the star" is bound to slip up, and let her true self come out.

And it's not like media is causing a "smear campaign" against her. What do they have against her? If she was generally well behaved person with an occasional slip up, they would rather follow around somebody else. It's the shenanigans they are after, not Lindsay per se.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

incorrect.

Angelina Jolie and Natalie Portman are "Hollywood reputable"

I'm not talking about adult Hollywood, I'm talking young Hollywood. She's competing with the likes of Paris Hilton and her dupes.

P.S. Why the sad face title?

Jumping into this debate...

Lindsay Lohan is NOT reputable even by Hollywood standards. She's fallen from A list to a status so low that she only gains exposure through tabloids, getting paid to attend parties and posting pictures of herself braless on Twitter.

See response to Edgar.

I disagree with this as well. Fe-doms are VERY aware of how others feel about their actions and that's their motivating force.

...And. What does this have to do with her trying to get Samantha back?

Oh, you're trying to provide argument for why she is Fe dom: she is aware of how her actions affect others, hence why she acts out. I totally agree.

ESFPs are Se Fi Te Ni. Lindsay Lohan is an Se-dom run amok with a poorly developed Fi, which makes perfect sense given how steeped she's been in Hollywood materialism from a young age and having a family life that did not allow her to understand her own feelings.

You could also easily argue that it is unhealthy Fe. Wanting to be desperately accepted, throwing tantrums when not getting her way. I don't see why this is isolated to Se.

BTW, I don't think loyalty and ambition are indications of J either. I'm an ENFP and am very loyal and ambitious and one of my friends, an ESFJ, while very directed in her approach to family and friends, is pretty rudderless when it comes to her career.

Yes, most ESFPs at 10 years old tell their mother they want to build a career instead of play. And you misunderstood. Any type can be loyal, but loyalty is characteristic of SJs. I reckon an Se dom would've moved on to better things by now, instead of clinging to Samantha.

How can you tell? She has been hollywooded up, she is an image of what the media wants her to be.

Yes. We can debate until we're blue in the face, but none of us can actually say definitively what her type is. Especially not when nearly everyone her age in Hollywood presents an Se type image.

 

[Mondo]

This chick lived on Long Island and actually attended the high school I graduated from for a little while.. for that reason, I feel reasonably confident in saying that she's an ESFP.
She lives life to the fullest- a way to satisfy her desires and emotions.

I wouldn't necessarily call her ambitious- in the career-ladder climbing sort... assuming that's what you guys mean when you say "ambitious".
She just has a pretty face and enjoys acting and seized the opportunity to be famous.

The reason why most actors/actresses are ESFP is because the ESFP most naturally fits in Hollywood.

 

[ajblaise]

ESFPs hate conflict and interpersonal tension, and value harmony. I think that alone disqualifies her.

 

[JocktheMotie]

ESFPs hate conflict and interpersonal tension, and value harmony. I think that alone disqualifies her.

Don't know about this. Fi in general is looking to constantly validate it's desires by "being true to yourself," which can often lead to behavior that is justified as long as one is honest with themselves. They value inner harmony, not external. The classic "Whateva, I do what I want" mentality.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

This chick lived on Long Island and actually attended the high school I graduated from for a little while.. for that reason, I feel reasonably confident in saying that she's an ESFP.

That doesn't make you an authority. Just as much as I can't claim to know 100 percent the types for the famous people that are from Boston and went to my high school...Unless you know her personally and/or are close with someone who knows her personally, your guess is as good as anyone else's.

She lives life to the fullest- a way to satisfy her desires and emotions.

Why can't this be ESFJ? Si is avaricious and Fe dom is ruled by feelings. I've known plenty of ESFJs that love to live luxuriously. I don't see your point here.

The reason why most actors/actresses are ESFP is because the ESFP most naturally fits in Hollywood.

How do you know that "most actors/actresses are ESFP"? Have you been giving out the MBTI in LA?

Don't know about this. Fi in general is looking to constantly validate it's desires by "being true to yourself," which can often lead to behavior that is justified as long as one is honest with themselves. They value inner harmony, not external. The classic "Whateva, I do what I want" mentality.

ExFPs do value external harmony, just as much as any ExFJ. The only difference is how they go about achieving it. Have you ever criticized an ExFP? How did they take it? Did they say "screw you" or did they take it as an invalidation?

 

[Jeffster]

You guys are funny.

All we can really gather from this topic is that Edgar really wants to do Lindsay.

Who is Samantha?

 

[JocktheMotie]

ExFPs do value external harmony, just as much as any ExFJ. The only difference is how they go about achieving it. Have you ever criticized an ExFP? How did they take it? Did they say "screw you" or did they take it as an invalidation?

I should give you my mother's phone number, and have you ask that question! Lol! You'd think I was the anti-Christ.

They do take criticism poorly because there is a personal component. They often find personal components to things as well. I find that they are far more concerned with their personal harmony than their external harmony.

 

[ajblaise]

Don't know about this. Fi in general is looking to constantly validate it's desires by "being true to yourself," which can often lead to behavior that is justified as long as one is honest with themselves. They value inner harmony, not external. The classic "Whateva, I do what I want" mentality.

All ESFP and ENFP profiles seem to mention conflict avoidance. Out of the Es I think ExFPs are the most averse to conflict. Though they do often have a defiant aspect to them, but so can ESFJs.

I think she seems Fe dominant too.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I should give you my mother's phone number, and have you ask that question! Lol! You'd think I was the anti-Christ.

They do take criticism poorly because there is a personal component. They often find personal components to things as well. I find that they are far more concerned with their personal harmony than their external harmony.

Where does personal harmony end and external harmony begin? For example, both INFPs and INFJs are known for working for peace in their communities. One does it out of adherence to their personal values and one does it out of their overt concern for the well being of others. Different starting points, same results.

Who is Samantha?

Ronson. Her girlfriend.

All ESFP and ENFP profiles seem to mention conflict avoidance. Out of the Es I think ExFPs are the most averse to conflict. Though they do often have a defiant aspect to them, but so can ESFJs.

I think she seems Fe dominant too.

Right, an ESFJ will fight to the death; Fe can be a bulldozer. They take conflict much better, at least outwardly, than the ESFPs I've seen.

 

[Strawberrylover]

I'm not talking about adult Hollywood, I'm talking young Hollywood. She's competing with the likes of Paris Hilton and her dupes.

Paris Hilton's hardly A list.

Oh, you're trying to provide argument for why she is Fe dom: she is aware of how her actions affect others, hence why she acts out. I totally agree.

You seem to think she's acting out to get a specific response. The way she acts out, with utter disregard for her career and her reputation and apparently with no consistent response from Sam, it's completely not directed.

You could also easily argue that it is unhealthy Fe. Wanting to be desperately accepted, throwing tantrums when not getting her way. I don't see why this is isolated to Se.

Right. It's Fi.

Yes, most ESFPs at 10 years old tell their mother they want to build a career instead of play. And you misunderstood. Any type can be loyal, but loyalty is characteristic of SJs. I reckon an Se dom would've moved on to better things by now, instead of clinging to Samantha.

Lindsay Lohan was pushed into show biz by her mother at a very young age when she became a Ford model when she was 3 or 5 or something. From there on, it's not inconceivable that she got a sense of her powers and went for it or that she kept getting pushed by her mom and just tells everyone that it was her idea.

As for the Samantha mess, what "better things" could Lindsay Lohan move on to? She's already climbed to the top of Hollywood for her age group, worked with Meryl Streep and other luminaries, and she's STILL a trainwreck. As bad as this Sam relationship is, it might be the best thing she's got for growing as an actual person. She reached the limits of being Se dom and now she's working on her Fi.

Yes. We can debate until we're blue in the face, but none of us can actually say definitively what her type is. Especially not when nearly everyone her age in Hollywood presents an Se type image.

Agreed. I just still think ESFP makes more sense for her than ESFJ.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

Paris Hilton's hardly A list.

I'm not talking of A list or B list. She rules young Hollywood. Everyone wants to hang with her, clubs pay her to attend.

You seem to think she's acting out to get a specific response. The way she acts out, with utter disregard for her career and her reputation and apparently with no consistent response from Sam, it's completely not directed.

You seem to think she's not acting out to get a specific response. She might be, or she might not. What proof do you have that she's not?

Right. It's Fi.

Introverted feeling? Now that you mention it, an introverted function does have better chance of being expressed outwardly than an extraverted function...

Lindsay Lohan was pushed into show biz by her mother at a very young age when she became a Ford model when she was 3 or 5 or something. From there on, it's not inconceivable that she got a sense of her powers and went for it or that she kept getting pushed by her mom and just tells everyone that it was her idea.

And it's not inconceivable that it was her own idea.

As for the Samantha mess, what "better things" could Lindsay Lohan move on to?

I don't know. Another ghastly looking DJ who's never seen without a hat?

She's already climbed to the top of Hollywood for her age group, worked with Meryl Streep and other luminaries...

Are you proving my point that she has rep in young Hollywood? Thanks.

As bad as this Sam relationship is, it might be the best thing she's got for growing as an actual person. She reached the limits of being Se dom and now she's working on her Fi.

According to you, her Fi is the function that is causing all of this mess in the first place, not Se. Which is it?

Agreed. I just still think ESFP makes more sense for her than ESFJ.

Because on this forum, all young Hollywood attention whores are automatically ESFP.

Keep it coming guys. This debate is fun.

 

[Edgar]

You guys are funny.

All we can really gather from this topic is that Edgar really wants to do Lindsay.

15 min fun ride is not worth 15 STDs that come with it.

I am an INTJ, not ISFP. I tend to give a lot of thought to consequences.

 

[Edgar]

I'm not talking about adult Hollywood, I'm talking young Hollywood. She's competing with the likes of Paris Hilton and her dupes.

Both linsay and natalie portman are in their 20s. You are confusing behavior with age - it doesn't always go hand in hand together. I'd say daniel radcliffe is more "adult" than mickey rourke who is almost 3 times his age.

At the expense of repeating myself... lindsay, paris hilton, kim kardashian, britney, etc are a traveling circus, a meal ticket for papparazzi and celebrity bloggers. They are not the epitomy of normal behavior in hollywood. Most of the "young dupes" you are thinking of are not famous for their work in entertainment - they are famous for being famous (or being freak shows, more accuratelty)

P.S. Why the sad face title?

I don't know, I didn't put it there.