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Plato: INFJ or INTJ

Blackwater

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Well I can't really provice any "new" info on this i you get my drift but I'd rather like to know your considerations on the matter...
 

JustDave

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If I shoot from the hip am I going to get attacked?

Eh, scratch that thought. I think he was an INTJ because i seem to remember learning that he was very argumentative. Although I could be confusing him with Socrates ...
 

Kiddo

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If he actually created Socrates and all the other philosophers in his writings, then I would say he is INFJ, but if he simply recorded them, then I would say he is INTJ.
 

Gabe

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Well I can't really provice any "new" info on this i you get my drift but I'd rather like to know your considerations on the matter...

"let none ignorant of geometry enter here".
He sounds a lot like an extraverted thinking type to me.
 

Magic Poriferan

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INTJ!

Feelings and context are to be removed from discussion, says Plato.
To put weight on those things is sophistry he says!
Also, how you give a speech is irrelavent, as is connontation.
Totally an INTJ.
 

Kiddo

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INTJ!

Feelings and context are to be removed from discussion, says Plato.
To put weight on those things is sophistry he says!
Also, how you give a speech is irrelavent, as is connontation.
Totally an INTJ.

Are you suggesting that INFJs are more inclined to rhetoric than INTJs? :huh:
 

Magic Poriferan

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Are you suggesting that INFJs are more inclined to rhetoric than INTJs? :huh:

In a way, though I think NFs are less inclined to be intentionally
rhetorical.

Never the less, personal context and connantation are undeniably more important to Feelers. Feelers are also much more prone to the Sophist belief that truth is determined by point of view, which is extremely subjective, and you know how most Thinkers hiss at subjectivity.
 

Athenian200

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Well I can't really provice any "new" info on this i you get my drift but I'd rather like to know your considerations on the matter...

I'll guess INTJ... he's very straightforward about things, and is regarded as a great philosopher. And I agree with many of his ideas, so that's probably good for the INxJ part.

He could be an INFJ, but if he is that means that he isn't a typical one. (But come on, he's Plato.)
 

wedekit

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The republic seems very INTJ, but the "perfect city" he discussed seemed to hint at the INFJ tendency to want to have the world shaped in their own vision. I'm not saying that this is what he personally desired since it seemed that he was simply trying to make a point, but to even pursue the concept of the family unit and any other kind of personal belonging being thrown for the sake of the city seems to relate to the INFJ idealistic-vision-gone-wrong. "Our city should just be one big happy family... literally!"

Removing feelings and emotions from an argument is not limited to INTJs since I could hardly get anywhere at a University if I wasn't able to, but I certainly wont deny he could have been one.

After he thoroughly discussed the city, he concluded that the only way this city could ever truly happen would be because of a miracle. So maybe removing the emotions and feelings from the proposal of the city was his way of showing the error of impersonal rationalization when it comes to people. It seemed to be more of an argument of Ethics.

That's just my two cents. :happy2:
 

the state i am in

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interesting but undreadably long, boring, exhaustative. intj.

i'd rather just have bob ross paint me a picture of his (platos) Ni city/society/city-state. you go, bob. paint that canvas. if infjs don't have a little feeling slip out, they become crazy, disenfranchised, and ludicrous (like intjs). but at least they don't get pushed around/pulled down so easily (like they usually are)!

now neo-platonism, that i just don't know. definitely not intj. where are you, plotinus?
 

Sentura

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EEEEEEEEEE-EEEEEEN-EEEEEF-PEEEEEEE
 

juggernaut

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EEEEEEEEEE-EEEEEEN-EEEEEF-PEEEEEEE

After reading (and rereading and rereading) The Republic, the one work that is credited as truly being Plato's own (with the exception of Book I maybe) I'm going with E as well. Plato was no I. The Myth of Blood & Metals as well as the repeated reliance on existing political structure as evidence screams E to me. Even the opening passages with the festival and the get together at Cephalus' house are indicative of E behavior, rather than I. Plato was way more of social butterfly than either Socrates or Aristotle, his INT mentor and pupil, respectively.
 

Sentura

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^psychologically it would also make sense that each generation inversed steps, with basic rules of extraverted/introverted intuition attracting each other.
 

RaptorWizard

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Feeler because he was way too humanistic and harmonizing to be a thinker and he even said that Socrates didn't love his fellow man enough.
 

the state i am in

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yeah, plato is as infj as it gets. after learning a bit more, he's too interested in spirit/the soul. and ideas are important based more on how they transform the individuals who take them on as beliefs than on what they can tangibly accomplish. how to be with the higher self in the best possible way.
 

RaptorWizard

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^ The above post seems to me a sufficiently strong analysis of Plato's personal metaphysics and I can contrast that with my system as a thinker being radically different as rather than focusing on finding our higher divine identity I seek to achieve infinite mastery of creation in order to control it and impose our will upon the world in a way that maximizes the power of our life force as well as being a means of achievement.
 

the state i am in

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i still don't think i can read what i want to mean from what i've said.

infjs focus of the goodness of the meanings that bind everything together. intjs focus on how the meanings can do specific things (by constraining what is possible more precisely). the difference between a holistic alchemist and an actual chemist. a willingness to venture even further into the unseen in order to do a broader, less refined diagnosis (a more values expansive, socially expansive one). i see plato's project as an attempt to re-balance the good, the true, and the beautiful. he gets torn to shreds in scholarship because of his essentialism and his belief in an ultimate truth. i don't think the platonic realism reading is particularly compelling. i think the neo-platonist reading seems more interesting as a way of being rather than doing, a way of understanding the recursive hierarchy of all things. it is simply an analysis of the world from the perspective of meaning, or from a communication systems perspective. the value of his project, i think, is in trying to invest one's self-expansion, one's identifications, in ways of life that feel ecologically valid, that inspire one to reach out all the way to higher and higher selfhoods. the meanings constrain how we can be together, how we can communicate, how we can live in community and recognize opportunities for beneficial communitas/shared transformational periods. this kind of responsibility and urging seems like the foundation of plato's work to me. creating conditions in terms of our knowledge/discourse/truth that inspire us to be the best we can be individually as we go down our respective paths (driven by the dialectics of life).

admittedly, this is kind of my own perspective because i've only read a bit for some rhetoric classes a ways back. i'd be more interesting in reading plotinus work "the enneads." which kind of seem to have many of the same insights of enneagrammatic theory and relate to a lot of the spiritual insights we discuss and try to codify in typology.
 

RaptorWizard

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Bringing Plotinus and his Neoplatonism into this discussion was a very interesting move. Personally I prefer Hermes and his Hermeticism as I do call myself a wizard after all but Neoplatonism perhaps has a certain spiritual element and a connection with what we might call the Universal Source or the Perfect One the other systems lack as they emphasize a holistic harmony with all that is. Hermeticism seems to be more rationalistic as it explains the mechanisms moving this system of the world on which it works into causation from a scientific standpoint as well as from the view of philosophical cosmology. I thereby equate both systems with Ni dominants since they both deal with the esoteric elements of existence though Neoplatonism seems more for INFJs and Hermeticism seems more for INTJs. Therefore I believe Plato and Plotinus were INFJs and Hermes was INTJ.
 

Elfboy

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Well I can't really provice any "new" info on this i you get my drift but I'd rather like to know your considerations on the matter...

my guess would be INTJ 1w9 So/Sp
 
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