John Lydon

[Jack Flak]

Well Jack, if there's one thing I've noticed from reading your threads it's that you seem to have appropriated very high levels of certainty about your opinions from our J friends here. How certain are you that YOU'RE not an INTJ?

Well, I'm assuming extremely certain, but even so it would be helpful if you'd provide reasoning instead of just repeatedly asserting that you're certain you're right. Seems useful for purposes of a discussion forum, no?

Yeah, we've been over Reznor more than once. And to tell you the truth, if you watch him in a relatively unrehearsed state, such as the videos I posted in one of the threads about him, and you think he's INTJ, we have no common ground to stand on.

 

[simulatedworld]

Agreed. Trent is an INTJ. Lydon, Axl and Liam are ESTPs (don't know Roth). However could McCartney not legitimately be an ISFP? :/

Umm, same question for E? He was always outgoing to a fault. Various Beatles interviews also seem to indicate he was kind of controlling in terms of creative compromises, and that's not very dominant Fi. He spent their entire career naysaying George's ideas!

And when's the last time you heard something like this from an ISFP?:

"Somebody said to me, 'But the Beatles were anti-materialistic.' That's a huge myth. John and I literally used to sit down and say, 'Now, let's write a swimming pool.'"

 

[simulatedworld]

Yeah, we've been over Reznor more than once. And to tell you the truth, if you watch him in a relatively unrehearsed state, such as the videos I posted in one of the threads about him, and you think he's INTJ, we have no common ground to stand on.

Drugs can make any type do some awfully ridiculous off-type shit. I'll be glad to take a look at the videos if you want to post the links here, but I'd be inclined to say they represent a rather small sample size and there's no telling what he had in his system at the time.

By the way, are you a musician?

 

[Jack Flak]

Drugs can make any type do some awfully ridiculous off-type shit. I'll be glad to take a look at the videos if you want to post the links here, but I'd be inclined to say they represent a rather small sample size and there's no telling what he had in his system at the time.

I know about drugs, and they don't make an INTJ seem like a relatively sober ENTP for twenty years straight.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/333621-post69.html

By the way, are you a musician?

Yes, but not professionally. I'm a lot of things, not professionally.

 

[simulatedworld]

I know about drugs, and they don't make an INTJ seem like a relatively sober ENTP for twenty years straight.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/333621-post69.html


Yes, but not professionally. I'm a lot of things, not professionally.

Did you really just apply the term "relatively sober" to Trent Reznor? The 1994 interview starts off with him acting INTJ by complaining about how fame involves such an invasion of his privacy. INTJs are very private people. ENTPs get off on having a lot of people interested in their lives.

Has he cracked ONE joke in this entire interview? I'm telling you from the perspective of an ENTP that this guy is not one of us, and I think you'd do well to reconsider your ideas once in a while. That's what you do, right?

What exactly IS it that gives you an ENTP vibe from him at all? So far you've only repeated glib, sarcastic remarks insisting that he is not an INTJ, but I really don't see it. What common characteristics of ENTPs are just jumping out at you from these Trent Reznor interviews?

He is rarely ambiguous or playful in his terminology and phrasing at all. Again, he takes himself too god damned seriously. ENTPs love ambiguous humor; we love subtly mocking ourselves or saying things simply because they contradict something we said earlier and that's genuinely funny to us. Reznor is too straight-forward and bluntly rational about his ideas. I might potentially go for INTP on him, but ENTP is frankly ridiculous.

 

[Jack Flak]

I base it on actual ENTPs and INTJs. I've known living, breathing ENTPs who were nothing like your comedian-style ideal. Very intelligent, and very serious. Too serious, just like Reznor.

 

[simulatedworld]

I base it on actual ENTPs and INTJs. I've known living, breathing ENTPs who were nothing like your comedian-style ideal. Very intelligent, and very serious. Too serious, just like Reznor.

That's cool. That description, while perhaps fitting some ENTPs sometimes, is much more suited to INTJs, though. You've taken a small sample size of personal experience and decided it applies to everyone else. (You've also ignored most of the things I said. Not all ENTPs are overt comedians but they do speak with a certain ambiguity that Reznor is totally missing.)

He also doesn't seem too focused on being shocking or over the top, or making himself the center of attention. He hasn't even fucking smiled! He never brings up irrelevant tangents (which ENTPs do constantly); everything he says is calculated to a fault, and his boss at the studio where he first took a janitorial job (and was thus allowed to begin playing with the studio equipment at night) had this to say about him (paraphrased):

He got a job at Right Track Studio (now known as Midtown Recording) as a handyman. Studio owner Bart Koster commented how Reznor "is so focused in everything he does. When that guy waxed the floor, it looked great."

"Focused in everything he does" is about the last description I would ever apply to myself or any other ENTPs I've met. Come on man, you've lost this one.

 

[Jack Flak]

And you, you're taking specific traits which neither define any type nor disqualify any type, and attempting to do both.

You may not understand my conviction here. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I'll breathe my last breath knowing Reznor is ENTP, and probably thinking Lydon is too.

 

[Anja]

I dunno. Is it possible to actually type a brain-damaged individual? John Lydon's brain was damaged as a child by meningitis and I think he probably completed the job by his teens with drug use.

He also gives the appearance of mental illness. That's quite a bit of fog to see through to the "real" guy, no?

 

[simulatedworld]

And you, you're taking specific traits which neither define any type nor disqualify any type, and attempting to do both.

You may not understand my conviction here. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I'll breathe my last breath knowing Reznor is ENTP, and probably thinking Lydon is too.

Stellar argument. Why do you bother discussing these matters on forums, then?


And of course I'm doing that; so are you. No characteristic defines type exactly; I'm simply adding up numerous clues to create an inductive argument that Reznor is INTJ. Clearly neither of us has absolute knowledge of his type.

 

[simulatedworld]

For that matter, why would you expend even one bit of effort explaining to me that I'm wrong about Reznor's type, if not to purposefully change what I think about it? Just for shits and giggles? Surely all this informing others of the inaccuracy of their ideas and never altering any of your own based on their responses (after all, you don't care what anyone thinks) sounds pretty dogmatically SJ to me.

But I digress--who cares?

 

[Anja]

I know I'm interupting your amusement but I think you're both arguing about an impossibility. Pretty stange.

 

[Jack Flak]

For that matter, why would you expend even one bit of effort explaining to me that I'm wrong about Reznor's type, if not to purposefully change what I think about it? Just for shits and giggles? Surely all this informing others of the inaccuracy of their ideas and never altering any of your own based on their responses (after all, you don't care what anyone thinks) sounds pretty dogmatically SJ to me.

But I digress--who cares?

As long as you don't care, I'm golden.

Like I said, I've already debated Reznor's type, and being that I'd stake my life on my type job, I hardly feel the need to pussyfoot around with you and your bullshit.

 

[simulatedworld]

As long as you don't care, I'm golden.

Like I said, I've already debated Reznor's type, and being that I'd stake my life on my type job, I hardly feel the need to pussyfoot around with you and your bullshit.

Well hardy har, aren't you clever? I guess I'd find that argument impressive if I were an STP of some sort. Or a dumbass.

 

[simulatedworld]

If I post my specific arguments one at a time, will that encourage you to stop blatantly ignoring them/continuing with more worthless personal digs?

 

[Jack Flak]

If I post my specific arguments one at a time, will that encourage you to stop blatantly ignoring them/continuing with more worthless personal digs?

You started it, Hoss. And no, I don't want to hear it. Especially not in the John Lydon thread.

 

[simulatedworld]

Of course, of course. Why would someone who's made just shy of 9,000 posts in about 6 months (that's about what, 50 a day?) debating various hypothetical ideas in an online forum actually care what anyone else has to say?

You win the apathy award, congrats! Maybe you and the other socially/emotionally stunted INTPs can have a big party where you all competitively pretend not to care about anyone else's ideas or accomplishments, you insecure fuck.

 

[Jack Flak]

Of course, of course. Why would someone who's made just shy of 9,000 posts in about 6 months (that's about what, 50 a day?) debating various hypothetical ideas in an online forum actually care what anyone else has to say?

You win the apathy award, congrats! Maybe you and the other socially/emotionally stunted INTPs can have a big party where you all competitively pretend not to care about anyone else's ideas or accomplishments, you insecure fuck.

Hehehehe