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Ayn Rand is undoubtedly an ENTJ not an INTJ

Harlow_Jem

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Apr 18, 2008
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eNTJ
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Who else thinks Ayn Rand is undoubtedly an ENTJ, not an INTJ as she is most commonly typed as?

In terms of socionics she's an Intraverted Extratim which basically explains why she appears introverted but is driven by extraverted thinking.

Her philosophy and novels all convey some sort of an urgent mission that needs to be reached and completed; she clearly shows black and white thinking executed in an almost merciless manner; her main characters are always very highly critical of the slightest bit of incompetence in others and they're almost completely unwavering in their beliefs and judgments.
 

ragashree

Reason vs Being
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Her philosophy and novels all convey some sort of an urgent mission that needs to be reached and completed; she clearly shows black and white thinking executed in an almost merciless manner; her main characters are always very highly critical of the slightest bit of incompetence in others and they're almost completely unwavering in their beliefs and judgments.

I suppose ENTJ is at any rate the natural assumption one might make for the kind of ideology you describe, as it is also the natural assumption to make that an INTJ is more likely to write a book about an ideology than go out in the real world and try to put it into action as an ENTJ might.

A more interesting question to me, however, is just why Americans seem to be so interested in the damm woman when almost no-one else takes her seriously either as a writer or philosopher. I would love someone who is NOT American to show up here and tell me that they've at least summoned up enough interest to actually bother reading her, but I suspect such people are pretty thin on the ground...
 

Harlow_Jem

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I suppose ENTJ is at any rate the natural assumption one might make for the kind of ideology you describe, as it is also the natural assumption to make that an INTJ is more likely to write a book about an ideology than go out in the real world and try to put it into action as an ENTJ might.

A more interesting question to me, however, is just why Americans seem to be so interested in the damm woman when almost no-one else takes her seriously either as a writer or philosopher. I would love someone who is NOT American to show up here and tell me that they've at least summoned up enough interest to actually bother reading her, but I suspect such people are pretty thin on the ground...

That's because Rand was an immigrant who frequently spoke of how much she loved America because it was one of the only places one could live out the kinds of lives her heroes and heroines do.

Europeans are more into the laid back reading and discussing of philosophies that present ideas and theories as something that's put out there for intellectualizing. Rand's philosophy is basically "read my shit and go kick your own ass and everyone else's to get to the top."
 

Jack Flak

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Introverted Extratim is contradictory. Did you mean Logical Intuitive Extratim?
 

A Schnitzel

WTF is this dude saying?
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Try looking at the law of non-contradiction.
A can't be B and not B at the same time.

There's no way around it unless you somehow define introverted and introtim as different things.
 

nozflubber

DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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Hype
..."is"..... an entj.... ?

Tupac, Elvis and Ayn Rand walk into a bar.....
 

Harlow_Jem

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I skimmed it. It still seems...Ridiculous, for lack of a more appropriate term. It would mean that she's INTJ and ENTj.

Yes, exactly...sort of. Myers Briggs tends to oversimplify things whereas socionics delves deeper into the twists and variations of type.

Extroverted or introverted doesn't describe whether you're into being social and "out there" all the time or not...it more describes the order of your primary to fourth functions.

Basically, like her, my introversion and extroversion are pretty much equal and I may appear as an INTJ but the way I perceive and deal with the world is more like that of an ENTJ.
 

Venom

Babylon Candle
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ayn rand is INTJ.

I even have a real life INTJ test subject (self typed and everybody else typed, family member INTJ) who is an ayn rand "fan".

1. besides the function order, ENTJs are more "real world" people. They are more superficial and care more about shit that actually works and is observed in the real world. (tertiary Se + primary Te)

2. Ayn rand fits the classic unhealthy Ni dom. She has these ideas that come from nowhere that when combined with Fi lead to a black and white view of the world. ENTJs can also have black and white views of the world due to Te. However, the INTJ version of "only seeing black and white" is especially obvious because they wont listen to the evidence that shows a reality of gray areas. An ENTJ would read Ayn's theories and then look for real world evidence (Se) and then conclude how oversimplified shes made it.

3. Ayn rand also suffered from paranoia (the Russians were out to get her if she ever dared fly commercial!). again, this is when Ni + Fi goes terribly wrong in the INTJ. INTJs like to keep this air about being hyper rational. However, they can be right up there with the most irrational when they get really attached to ideas. Ayn was so attached to her ideas that she went bat shit crazy in the face of THE REAL WORLD.

ex: according to Ayn Rand, someone who values their friends and family over their work is a "bad person". She probably viewed herself as this messahinic tragic hero whose job was to show the world how 100% capitalism was the only way (again, black and white thinking).
 

Edgar

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Wacked out ENTJs tend to be extreme tyrranists.
Wacked out INTJs tend to be extreme libertarians.

Unlike ENTJs, INTJs are concerned about the control of self first, then the control of others. Independence is the foundation of INTJ's self worth - Ayn Rand just took it to an extreme, where she basically said "every man for himself"
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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I read The Fountainhead. Each paragraph was a puzzle. There would be massive jumps from one concept to the next, but they'd all be in the same paragraph so they had to be--what would you call them?--the sketching of a system of meaning that included really big leaps of intuition.

I liked it.

Roark was a dull character--more of a principle than a person.
Keating was the only thing keeping me going with the book while reading Part I
Wynand reminded me so much of an ENTJ I know that I almost recommended the book to her. (Told her to skip Parts I&II.)
One game I kept playing while reading was looking for evidence that Ellsworth Toohey was ENFJ.

Dominique Francon remains the one ellusive character. INTJ or INFJ? Couldn't ever tell. And if she was either, then what the hell was up with her? :shock:



The real world? Pshaw. Concrete literalists keeping your intuition at bay. The reason INTJs have brains the size of a planet is reality is subject to concepts, not the other way around, and we need a place to play it out properly. If Rand had accepted the confines of the really real world, her book would have been just as jolly as any other street directory. As it is, she got to make her own streets, so nyah!

When you get right down to it, though, kind of a lonely book. I read it as an INTJ bible.:cry:
 

Mondo

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I think that if Ayn Rand was an ENTJ that she would have tried to run for political office or had been more outspoken outside of her books if she was one.
I think she was an INTJ.
 

Debaser

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Dec 22, 2013
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xNTJ
No no, you ENTJs can take her if you want. That way she's one more letter removed from me.
 

Boelthorn

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Feb 11, 2017
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ENTJ
I think waht people try to say is that a person can be socially an Introvert but an E type. Your cognitive functions define if you are intreoverted oer ewxtroverted for MBTI. How you interqact with other people is a factorbut not the dominating factor. Can one of the people tthat type her as an INTJ explain how a woman that calls herself "advocate of reason" her school of thought "objectivism" and is basically obsessed with reason and logic prefers Ni over Te? I just don't fucking see it. I mean, I don't care that much. I don't liker her. I don't really care about her. But it baffles me that some pepople on the internet seem to think that reason and logic in a way Rand upholds is somehow connected more to INTJ than ENTJ. No, INTJs are not the "most logical type" as one guy in a discussion once declared it. That is Te, not Ni.
 
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