Doctor Who

[Jeffster]

These are mostly right, I think. I'd go with ISTP for Ian; he's Ti embodied.

I'm currently re-watching my dvd of "The Dalek Invasion of Earth", and I've decided I agree with you here. In his latest book, "Brains And Careers", David Keirsey calls the ISTP the "Tactical Contender." And that's exactly what Ian does throughout his time as a Tardis passenger - tactically contend with whatever is thrown at him, using whatever tools are at his disposal, both mental and physical tools, to achieve his ends - which are usually just the continued survival of his companions and himself.

Pretty soon I'll re-watch some of the Steven episodes and see if I concur with your assessment that he's more SP than SJ. It's certainly possible - personality types were not even close to on my mind as I watching those episodes through the first time a few years ago.

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

Having dwelled some more, I think you're right about Steven; there's more Si going on than Se. It depends on the story, and his character comes out more in the performance than in the writing, but all the way through The Time Meddler, he has trouble with the Doctor's and Vicki's esoteric explanations for what he sees. He fishes into his memory banks, then applies extraverted thinking to explain things away as practically as he can.

So. SiTe or TeSi. That's ISTJ or ESTJ. I want to say that, on reflection, he's quite a bit more introverted than I realized. His toy panda, Hi-Fi, seems to point to this. (And this sounds right.)

I was paying too much attention to the freewheeling rocket jockey element, which now strikes me as more incidental after The Chase. I also think I was confusing Te for Se and Si for Ti. That is to say, his introversion -- as I'm now leaning -- came off like perception, and his judgment came off like extraversion.

I believe The Massacre was the first story actually written for Steven as such, rather than for a generic male companion. (He was only written into the show a week or two before his first appearance.) So that's probably a good place to start watching. In that scene at the end, I think that's a loyal follower who isn't used to taking control or challenging his leader, and yet he has had enough. I think that's where his dissonance comes from. That would also explain why he so quickly returns, despite his frustration.

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[Kalach]

I figured ESFJ for Donna and ESFP for Rose.

And Martha? Call me crazy, but maybe ISFP?

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

Don't you think the conflict between Sylvia and Donna is essentially a J/P thing (SJ/SP thing, at that), with Sylvia constantly nagging Donna about her lack of ambition in life? Until the Doctor comes along and fires some unused neurons, all Donna cares about is the new flavor of Pringle.

And wouldn't you say that series two Rose in particular is basically an Fi monster? In particular, look at the Cyberman two-parter and her behavior there. For everything that's going on around her, all that's screwed up, what matters to her is her own personal stuff.

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Her character is kind of distorted there, but this has been her modus operandi since we met her. Another big arrow is Father's Day. Even when she gets down with the proletariat, she's more condescending than anything -- projecting her own values on others, and thinking that helps -- as Gwyneth points out in Unquiet Dead.

She gets tweaked for that again in The Impossible Planet.

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As for S versus F, that's a bit more ambiguous. Notice, though, how her journey seems entirely based on finding meaning in life. Granted, she tends to try to find it through older men. Notice also how Rose is contrasted with Jackie, in the ideals she holds, that Jackie sniffs at. Without those ideals she wouldn't be able to lecture every downcast creature she finds (from Dalek to, well, Mickey) about how to improve its lot.

Mind, if she is an INFP, she's a terribly immature one.

 

[Kalach]

I'm not being at all scientific about the typing - just sitting here watching the shows wondering what an ENTP's doing being mates with these people.

Donna particularly reminds me a whole lot of a girl I know and have decided to type ESFJ, including all that exaggerated "Noo!" stuff, the sudden robust caring for people, and of course, the sheer volume... On this scheme the Donna vs Sylvia thing is SJ vs miserable old SJ.

And Rose doesn't seem very N. Not much Ne vs Ne with the Doctor, but a lot of Se lets go. Plus she smiles like an ENFP I know.

And I have no idea about Martha except that she seems E but not very, and could conceivably be INFJ but not really...

So... that's all I got. Probably includes a fair bit of mixing up actor with part played.



Edit to address the actual points:

Donna and ambition: I got the impression that Donna was very ambitious, just not successful. Consider the first time we meet her, on the verge of a marriage she thinks she created.

Sylvia: a miserable old woman accustomed to finding fault. Dare I say a frustrated TJ? ISTJ? Except she has a lot of energy for undermining Donna, so E?

Rose: we're agreeing FP? Cool. She was looking for meaning? In season 1 I guess. So far I've looked only at the David Tennant Doctor. But she was an Fi monster in Season 2? Matter of perspective, I guess. What I kept on noticing was the way serious exchanges between the Doctor and Rose would turn into some kind of joke exchange because one or the other of them would make a face and it would lead to some kind of "Let's go!" activity. Often, as I recall, in the face of danger. So I said Se. But I don't suppose one should rule out Ne.

 

[Two Point Two]

To bring back an old thread (I hope that's ok 'round these parts, but I was thinking about it and didn't want to start a new one):

I agree on ESFJ for Donna. That's not particularly well thought out, but she seems too high-strung to be a P.

It's a while since I've seen a Rose season. Some kind of xSFP seems right, though she doesn't seem to be solidly E or I.

I have no idea on Martha. IxxJ, but beyond that, not sure.

 

[hokie912]

I've only seen the new series, but these are my impressions:

The Doctor: ENTP
Rose Tyler: ISFP
Martha Jones: ISFJ
Donna Noble: ESFJ

I like Rose as ISFP rather than ESFP. Fi-dominant sounds right, and I don't find in her life in London that she seems all that extraverted. She definitely comes across as extraverted when engaging others she meets while traveling with the Doctor, but I think with him she's on this constant experience-high. I was really tempted to type her as INFP, but I think she more closely resembles ISFPs I've known.

Donna is definitely ESFJ -- one who over the course of her travels learns to use her Fe to really connect with people rather than enforcing/conforming to social expectations. Her capacity for empathy is just amazing. And she definitely uses Si rather than Se: look at how she solves all those mysteries with knowledge gained working as a temp in an office.

And, just because: Sally Sparrow: INFJ.
Kathy Nightingale: What did you come here for anyway?
Sally Sparrow: I love old things. They make me feel sad.
Kathy Nightingale: What's good about sad?
Sally Sparrow: It's happy for deep people.

 

[jenocyde]

I think I'm alone in seeing Donna Noble as an ExTP, but I do. She's got an amazingly sharp Ti, but it often comes 2nd place to whatever else is going on around her. But she follows the Doctor's train of thought better than any other companion in the new series. She is extremely analytical underneath her brash exterior.

Her depression at not having amounted to anything in life could have been the reason for her party-girl behavior... living in her shadow or inferior functions or whatever.

She wanted to remain a temp, she is always bragging about her skills (which I find to be an EP trait) and she lives on hope rather than reality - which is a very P trait. Always holding out for something better.

But once she found her true calling, she excelled in it. She rarely made bumbling selfish, stupid moves like Rose (who was warned over and over again not to save her father, not to touch her baby self, etc...). And she didn't live in a dream world surrounded by dreams of saving people and falling in love like Martha did. Donna ended her engagement with no fanfare or remorse or sadness for being duped. She refused traveling with the Doctor because he killed so many and she didn't want to be committed to all that mess. It's not so unrealistic for an ExTP woman to exhibit Fe at that stage in her life. But she did stay on Earth and made it her mission to be a supernatural detective of sorts while looking for the Doctor.

Anyway, that being said, Donna is my favorite companion of this new series.

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

Yeah, you've been convincing me of that. It's easy to type Donna as we first see her, rather than later on after she blossoms and finds herself.

 

[hokie912]

I'm trying to see EXTP for Donna, but I still don't. In Runaway Bride, she's basically the portrait of an unhealthy ESFJ, and I think she grows into herself over the course of the series and is ultimately a very balanced ESFJ. I'm still bitter about her ending.

I think I'm alone in seeing Donna Noble as an ExTP, but I do. She's got an amazingly sharp Ti, but it often comes 2nd place to whatever else is going on around her. But she follows the Doctor's train of thought better than any other companion in the new series. She is extremely analytical underneath her brash exterior.

I agree that Donna's quite sharp, but she is so in a different way than the Doctor is. She recognizes things based on how they fit into he past experiences (Si) and figures them out from there. The Doctor has a habit of missing the trees for the forest, and Donna sees the trees. I think Donna's a great companion because her strengths and the Doctor's compliment one another nicely. She's strong enough and independent enough that they can interact as equals, whereas the power balance is way askew with Rose and Martha.

Interesting to note that if she is ESFJ, she has the same four functions as the Doctor in a different order.

She wanted to remain a temp, she is always bragging about her skills (which I find to be an EP trait) and she lives on hope rather than reality - which is a very P trait. Always holding out for something better.

I see this as insecurity on her part, though. She hadn't figured out something that she wanted to do that was also socially acceptable for someone her age. She's initially brash and abrasive, but obviously overcompensating. And she wanted--or thought she wanted--extremely conventional things: job, attractive husband, family. I don't see it as being an exclusively EP trait to brag about areas of competency, or live on hope (although in the pre-Doctor stage of her life, I'd probably argue that she wasn't that hopeful and was definitely getting to the point of "settling").

Donna ended her engagement with no fanfare or remorse or sadness for being duped. She refused traveling with the Doctor because he killed so many and she didn't want to be committed to all that mess. It's not so unrealistic for an ExTP woman to exhibit Fe at that stage in her life. But she did stay on Earth and made it her mission to be a supernatural detective of sorts while looking for the Doctor.

About the engagement: sort of. She certainly wasn't happy about it, and would have been downright miserable if she hasn't gotten a great big dose of perspective right after it happened. This is one of my very favorite exchanges of dialogue in the entire series:
Doctor: We've gone back 4.6 billion years. Only dust and gas and rocks. That's the sun, over there, brand new. The Earth is all around us in the dust.
Donna: Puts the wedding in perspective. Lance was right. We're just... tiny...
Doctor: No, but that's what you do! The human race. Make sense out of chaos. Marking it out with...weddings, and Christmas, and calendars. This whole process is beautiful -- but only if it's being observed.
Donna: So I came out of all this.
Doctor. Isn't that brilliant?

Donna's not going with the Doctor at the end of Runaway Bride is so Fe-Si: he scares her, he's unconventional, that's just not what people do. And what I love about that scene is how she really sees him: "I think you need someone to stop you." She's so astute with feelings and so empathetic under all that initial defensiveness that I really can't but see Fe as one of her first functions. She realizes she's made a huge mistake, though, and changes her lifestyle because now she has a purpose.

So yeah, I'm still seeing ESFJ. Granted, if so, she's probably the coolest ESFJ fictional character I can even think of.

 

[Two Point Two]

I agree that Donna's quite sharp, but she is so in a different way than the Doctor is. She recognizes things based on how they fit into he past experiences (Si) and figures them out from there. The Doctor has a habit of missing the trees for the forest, and Donna sees the trees. I think Donna's a great companion because her strengths and the Doctor's compliment one another nicely.

This.

Two instances stand out in my memory (spoilers, I guess) - Donna noting that there were no sick days taken by the employees at that company, and recognising how strange that was, and Donna working out, after attending to them and following them along for an entire episode, that the engravings in that underground city were dates.

That seems to be Donna's brand of genius - taking in little pieces of information that the Doctor overlooks, and working at them to fit them together and into a wider context of past experience, and working up to an interesting conclusion from those details. It seems very Si-with-Je to me.

I also think that she has to be an F. One of the most consistent aspects of her characterisation (and one of the things I like best about her) is her constant questioning the doctor's morality. I also think she's more SF than NF, since her moral subjects are usually individuals. The doctor is very much morally concerned, but he's more inclined to lose sight of the individual in pursuit of some more general moral concern, or, sometimes, with some non-moral fascination.

Anyway, that being said, Donna is my favorite companion of this new series.

Definitely.

 

[jenocyde]

So yeah, I'm still seeing ESFJ. Granted, if so, she's probably the coolest ESFJ fictional character I can even think of.

I wrote a long response to this which then got deleted by accident :steam:. Blah.

This.

Two instances stand out in my memory (spoilers, I guess) - Donna noting that there were no sick days taken by the employees at that company, and recognising how strange that was, and Donna working out, after attending to them and following them along for an entire episode, that the engravings in that underground city were dates.

That seems to be Donna's brand of genius - taking in little pieces of information that the Doctor overlooks, and working at them to fit them together and into a wider context of past experience, and working up to an interesting conclusion from those details. It seems very Si-with-Je to me.

I also think that she has to be an F. One of the most consistent aspects of her characterisation (and one of the things I like best about her) is her constant questioning the doctor's morality. I also think she's more SF than NF, since her moral subjects are usually individuals. The doctor is very much morally concerned, but he's more inclined to lose sight of the individual in pursuit of some more general moral concern, or, sometimes, with some non-moral fascination.


Definitely.

Yeah, what I wrote before that I didn't get a chance to post was that she really feels ExTP to me, and even reminds me of myself when I was younger in some ways. Living with someone who constantly tears you down can have a negative effect on your self esteem and can make you live in your shadow, which is what I thought she was doing.

I also have a lot of Fe, as a woman in my 30s, it's not surprising that she would as well by that point. I would have refused to travel with the doctor for the same reasons, if I had just witnessed a genocide. I wouldn't have volunteered myself to be the person who stops him since I couldn't be bothered, though. But you don't need to be an F to care about people, and I don't think she has Fe in the "social convention" sense. After she turned the Doctor down, she traveled and investigated supernatural crimes and actively looked for the Doctor. She didn't try, or care to, look for another fiance. She realized what she was good at.

And when she bluntly rejected the Doctor, she made a decision and that was that.

She can seem S ish to me sometimes since she packed an entire trunk of clothes, including a hat box, to travel with the Doctor and like you said, has more of a concrete memory. ESTP? Possibly. But could be NT also. She really can follow the Doctor's train of thought and he's an N. And she sucks at anything physical.

I would also have been the one to see numbers and try to figure out their pattern. She also learned the dewey decimal system in only 2 days. She is a very thorough investigator and has a penchant for it. That is very Ti-ish to me.

She is not afraid, or even respectful, of authority - I loved the way she yelled at the traffic cop in The End of Time, as an example.

Also, she asks such Ti questions without hesitation. When she was transported into the Tardis for the first time and panicked (on her wedding day) she opened the doors and immediately recognized her situation and said "how am I breathing?".

When she missed her wedding and the Doctor asked if she was all right, she simply said "doesn't matter". Then she faked tears to get the wedding party to forgive her.

Seems like such a T type to me.

Wilf even recounted a tale that Donna took the bus by herself when she was 6 to go to some city when her mom refused to take her on a vacation. And on her first day of school, she was sent home for biting like was said in the Runaway Bride. She is just so fierce and independent, but the years of belittling had taken their toll.

But I guess we can always find different things to support our "case". At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

 

[hokie912]

But I guess we can always find different things to support our "case". At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

I think that's definitely true. I do think you raise a lot of good points, though. In any case, it's definitely an interesting discussion!

 

[hokie912]

So, what do we think about Amy Pond's type? ISTP, maybe? Too damaged to type? Too much of a cipher to type? Her fiancee seems very much ISFP.

 

[Ratsimoan]

So, what do we think about Amy Pond's type? ISTP, maybe? Too damaged to type? Too much of a cipher to type? Her fiancee seems very much ISFP.

Amy, definitely, not an T. but maybe enfp or enfj.

 

[Tom]

Haven't seen much of the new series yet but she seemed E-FP to me.

 

[hokie912]

I could probably get on board with Amy being E or F. She's just sort of callous and calculating at times, which makes me think T...but, again, probably just really damaged. Although I think she has a lot of Ti...think of the way she interacted with the Doctor as a child (so unfazed and practical). Maybe it's too soon in the series to be able to type the character.

 

[jenocyde]

Ts are not cold and calculating!!

She seems to run on Fi. Did you see Amy's Choice yet? It's the one that got released in the UK today. If not, I won't post my thoughts about her Fi-ness just yet because I don't want to ruin it for you. But to me, she seems Fi to the max.

She also seems Si crazed. I mean, how many years did she spend drawing the doctor, convincing Rory to dress up like him, looking to the sky - clinging to her past, never moving on... I would actually say she's an xNFP stuck in a Fi-Si loop, but I don't get much Ne from her. I guess I never really paid attention to her before tonight's episode - she always seemed so... vapid. I need more time, I don't know.

 

[hokie912]

Ts are not cold and calculating!!

Okay, that came out wrong! Of course not.

She seems to run on Fi. Did you see Amy's Choice yet? It's the one that got released in the UK today. If not, I won't post my thoughts about her Fi-ness just yet because I don't want to ruin it for you. But to me, she seems Fi to the max.

She also seems Si crazed. I mean, how many years did she spend drawing the doctor, convincing Rory to dress up like him, looking to the sky - clinging to her past, never moving on... I would actually say she's an xNFP stuck in a Fi-Si loop, but I don't get much Ne from her. I guess I never really paid attention to her before tonight's episode - she always seemed so... vapid. I need more time, I don't know.

I just watched Amy's Choice tonight. I'm not sure what to think based on that episode. As a character, Amy seems so wishy-washy. I think she's, unfortunately, been used as a plot device rather than developed as an organic character in several episodes (particularly "The Beat Below" and "Victory of the Daleks"). We're only just getting back on track with character development as of "Vampires in Venice" and the most recent episode. In any case, I'm not at all confident on typing her, which is why I wanted to hear others' opinions. I still see Ti in the way she interacts with the Doctor, but that could be another function manifesting itself.

 

[jenocyde]

She totally was prepared to take the risk of killing herself, and The Doctor - and her unborn child - all because she felt love for Rory. There was no logical reason to believe that this was the dream - she just felt like she couldn't live without him. Giving it all up for love doesn't seem very Ti to me.

And there was almost no Fe there, as far as I could see. As opposed to Rory, whose dying words were to take care of their unborn baby.

I see a lot of Si in her - like how she draws very linear conclusions - but I don't see any Ti in her, really. But it's still early.