Tolkien Was INTP, not INFP. Convince me otherwise

[Doctor Cringelord]

Tolkien was a master world builder but he left a lot to desire in his characters’ arcs, if they can even be called arcs. He was great at creating fictional cultures but most of the individual characters he created were wooden archetypes taken straight out of Beowulf, the Bible and other heroes journey myths.

Why does everyone seem to type him INFP? I’d expect an INFP to do a better job of creating human, multidimensional characters. They seem to have a real gift for putting themselves in other’s shoes.

 

[Obfuscate]

the parallels were more of an intentional design decision than an inability to create something entirely unique...

that said, i have no strong opinion of his type beyond that i have suspected nt for some time now...

 

[Pionart]

I hope your typing is based on strengths, too, and not just deficiencies.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I hope your typing is based on strengths, too, and not just deficiencies.

Yes. He was a master world builder. Although he wrote fantasy, there was a definite internal logic and consistency to Arda.

I know it's become very popular to compare Tolkien to George RR Martin, but it serves as a good contrast between INTP and INFP.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

the parallels were more of an intentional design decision than an inability to create something entirely unique...

that said, i have no strong opinion of his type beyond that i have suspected nt for some time now...

Yes. This intentional design was made possible by Ti and Si.

 

[cascadeco]

I didn't realize he was commonly typed as INFP.

He was a linguist by profession. That was one of his true loves; it's my understanding that he actually created full blown languages of Middle Earth. Tied to that, you could scrap the trilogy and there's all of the history prior to it that he fleshed out; THAT is what I find truly impressive and what I think speaks more to what made him tick. Much has been published posthumously that would point to INTP, and I'd personally choose that first over INFP; but honestly I don't have a strong opinion/don't find it super important (but that applies to type in general )

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I didn't realize he was commonly typed as INFP.

He was a linguist by profession. That was one of his true loves; it's my understanding that he actually created full blown languages of Middle Earth. Tied to that, you could scrap the trilogy and there's all of the history prior to it that he fleshed out; THAT is what I find truly impressive and what I think speaks more to what made him tick. Much has been published posthumously that would point to INTP, and I'd personally choose that first over INFP; but honestly I don't have a strong opinion/don't find it super important (but that applies to type in general )

Perhaps it's not as common a typing as I'd imagined. I just seem to remember seeing INFP as one of the most frequent suggestions whenever reading threads anywhere online regarding his type.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I also don't mean to imply that INFPs cannot be good world builders. They certainly can be, which is why I mentioned Martin.

 

[cascadeco]

I also don't mean to imply that INFPs cannot be good world builders. They certainly can be, which is why I mentioned Martin.

Well the difference is that Tolkien's world was internally cohesive and brilliantly detailed - he took into account nearly everything, wanting to make it as 'real' to life as possible, how an actual world would actually develop with its history, myths, eras, languages, song and art, and so on. Writers like Martin aren't focused on that - they're more about the story itself, the action and suspense, intrigue, lots of characters with their own stories/ multiple stories going on. Martin is more drama imo; Tolkien more focused on history, the world itself.

 

[Norexan]

He created idealistic Black and White world - Delta. So INFP. If any other type he can be it would be ISTJ.

 

[rav3n]

Tolkien was an architect, building detailed universal systems where interpersonal drama wasn't focused on much. It was the fight between good and evil where the good guys all got along and the bad guys, treated everyone like shit, whether friend or foe. Any interpersonal dramas were minute asides. The writers for the movies, including Peter Jackson, elevated the interpersonal stuff, hence likely why people mistype Tolkien as an INFP.

IMO, he's an INTP but then, my exposure to his books began as a prepube, rereading them almost once a year for many, many years. The regular reading stopped when the movies came out since they gave me the opportunity to be lazy, lol.

 

[cascadeco]

Tolkien was an architect, building detailed universal systems where interpersonal drama wasn't focused on much. It was the fight between good and evil where the good guys all got along and the bad guys, treated everyone like shit, whether friend or foe. Any interpersonal dramas were minute asides. The writers for the movies, including Peter Jackson, elevated the interpersonal stuff, hence likely why people mistype Tolkien as an INFP.

IMO, he's an INTP but then, my exposure to his books began as a prepube, rereading them almost once a year for many, many years. The regular reading stopped when the movies came out since they gave me the opportunity to be lazy, lol.

I, too, have read his books many times.

Another thing that I think points to INTP is that many people find his writing difficult and extremely *dry*. Thus, a lot of people don't care for his writing style and can find it tedious. Personally I have no issue with it, but I think this element is something that would be unlikely for an INFP writer to be perceived as.

 

[rav3n]

I, too, have read his books many times.

Another thing that I think points to INTP is that many people find his writing difficult and extremely *dry*. Thus, a lot of people don't care for his writing style and can find it tedious. Personally I have no issue with it, but I think this element is something that would be unlikely for an INFP writer to be perceived as.

IMO, he's a master-craftsman!

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Tolkien was an architect, building detailed universal systems where interpersonal drama wasn't focused on much. It was the fight between good and evil where the good guys all got along and the bad guys, treated everyone like shit, whether friend or foe. Any interpersonal dramas were minute asides. The writers for the movies, including Peter Jackson, elevated the interpersonal stuff, hence likely why people mistype Tolkien as an INFP.

IMO, he's an INTP but then, my exposure to his books began as a prepube, rereading them almost once a year for many, many years. The regular reading stopped when the movies came out since they gave me the opportunity to be lazy, lol.

The good guys didn't all get along, though. Remember Denethor and Boromir and Gimili and the elves in Lothlorien?

 

[rav3n]

The good guys didn't all get along, though. Remember Denethor and Boromir and Gimili and the elves in Lothlorien?

Denethor was a bad guy. Boromir was the archetype of good guy who allowed pride to corrupt him, hence bad guy. Gimli and the elves were the archetypal conflict of cultural and racism clashing, until they got to know each other and then, no probs. Regardless, these were asides to provide the historical backgrounds to the overarching theme. Literally every little detail he included had a logical reason for their inclusion. This is classic Ti.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Tolkien was an architect, building detailed universal systems where interpersonal drama wasn't focused on much. It was the fight between good and evil where the good guys all got along and the bad guys, treated everyone like shit, whether friend or foe. Any interpersonal dramas were minute asides. The writers for the movies, including Peter Jackson, elevated the interpersonal stuff, hence likely why people mistype Tolkien as an INFP.

IMO, he's an INTP but then, my exposure to his books began as a prepube, rereading them almost once a year for many, many years. The regular reading stopped when the movies came out since they gave me the opportunity to be lazy, lol.

Yeah, that cohesion (at least within the various factions) strikes me as very much a value of alpha quadra. Roddenberry was also an alpha type and didn’t like interpersonal drama (if there was any, it was usually resolved in the same episode versus DS9 which he wasn’t involved in and featured quite a bit of ongoing tensions among the main characters)

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

An interesting thing about the 'fallen' characters like Boromir or Isildur in Tolkien's works is that they almost always end up getting their just desserts as payment for their follies. He was very set on making sure 'good' characters who erred got what was coming for them. Even those who repent and go on to serve the forces of light often die, almost as if they're still paying for their prior sins, i.e. Théoden.

Sure, it doesn't make it as realistic as Martin, where 'bad' people often get away with murder (literally) whilst 'good' people often fall on very bad luck despite their best intentions. But it is satisfying on some level.

I admit that I enjoyed how Jackson humanized some of the characters like Boromir. I really hate book Boromir, but movie Boromir is a tragic hero and I enjoyed that Jackson tried to give him some form of an arc. His death sequence is one of the more emotional parts of the films, IMO. Might just be that I love Sean Bean though.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I admit that I enjoyed how Jackson humanized some of the characters like Boromir. I really hate book Boromir, but movie Boromir is a tragic hero and I enjoyed that Jackson tried to give him some form of an arc. His death sequence is one of the more emotional parts of the films, IMO. Might just be that I love Sean Bean though.

Yeah, Boromir was kind of just a douche in the book. It's too bad he screwed up Faramir, though. I suppose the two cancel each other out.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yeah, Boromir was kind of just a douche in the book. It's too bad he screwed up Faramir, though. I suppose the two cancel each other out.

Denethor was like the stereotypical WASPy dad too. Like he could be the bad guy’s dad in the 1986 film One Crazy Summer

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Denethor was like the stereotypical WASPy dad too. Like he could be the bad guy’s dad in the 1986 film One Crazy Summer

Is that the one with the dad from Frasier?