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Joseph Stalin

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Everybody are so obsessed with Hitler but no one is looking at Stalin.


What do you think Stalin is from the perspective of MBTI?
 

miked277

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
343
MBTI Type
INTP
i've heard estj and istj. of course not having read any books directly about him i can't come to any conclusions myself.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
It's about damn time somebody started a thread about Uncle Joe. Socionics has him classifed as a Logical sensing introvert(LSI) - whatever the hell that means translated to MBTI.

Here's one description of Stalin's personality I've posted here before:

"Stalin was trusting Hitler to act rationally; and to fight Britain and Russia at the same time was clearly irrational. However, he failed to realize that, despite their similarities, there was one profound difference between him and Hitler which made his perfect logic irrelevant. He himself was a methodical, calculating, hard-working man; a master of detail, personally signing death lists at one extreme, and at the other keeping the tiniest details of gold production in his notebook. "
-- Warlords: An Extraordinary Re-Creation of World War II Through the Eyes and Minds of Hitler, Churchill, Roosevelt, And Stalin, pg. 50

I also have a biography of his early life that details alot about his personality traits. I've also read Edvard Radzinsky's biography, and many significant parts of Robert Service's biography. Not to mention Simon Sebag Montefiore's latest Young Stalin, which also contains much about the man's personality.

One thing now that many biographers and historians are agree on is that Stalin had a more intellectual inclination than previously believed. It was assumed that he lacked intellectual prowess compared to other Bolshevik rivals like Trotsky, yet new information shows that this wasn't really the case. Robert Service talks extensively about Stalin's impressive grasp of the field of Linguistics for example.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
Stalin was an ISTJ.

Originally, he was put in charge of the communist party's logistics (detail oriented, number crunching work). He was shunned by Lenin and Trotsky when it came to the long term plans and leadership for the communist party because neither of them saw Stalin as theoretic. He was bad at predicting people's intentions (a common weakness amongst the STJs). He was shocked to find out that Hitler, even though his idealogical enemy, breached the non-aggression pact. As a result, he locked himself in his chambers and refused to come out for days (introverts react to stress by seeking solace in solitude) He securing the power with an SJ approach - in a diligent and methodical way he destroyed anyone who was exposed to "foreign ideas" instead trying to sift through their loyalties. Kind of like an attrition warfare style that requires the attention to detail. He definitely wasn't a Feeler - when his son got shot down from his plane, Germans attempted to trade him for a Nazi general who was in Soviet captivity. To that Stalin replied "No lieutenant is worth a general"

He was also bad at reading his family dynamic (also a common STJ weakness), refused to let his son marry a Jew, resulting in his son's attempted suicide, surprising Stalin who prized himself on being able to control everything. His wife also committed suicide.
 

Cimarron

IRL is not real
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
3,417
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
It's about damn time somebody started a thread about Uncle Joe. Socionics has him classifed as a Logical sensing introvert(LSI) - whatever the hell that means translated to MBTI.
Yup, sounds like an ISTJ. Stalin's my comrade! :huh:
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
He was shunned by Lenin and Trotsky when it came to the long term plans and leadership for the communist party because neither of them saw Stalin as theoretic.

Lenin never really shunned Stalin. Lenin had more contempt for Trotsky then for Stalin. Besides, Lenin made Stalin in charge of formulating the Bolshevik Party stance on nationalities, which is seen in Stalin's famous essay "Marxism and the National Question" and later being made Commisar of Nationalities.


He was also bad at reading his family dynamic (also a common STJ weakness), refused to let his son marry a Jew, resulting in his son's attempted suicide, surprising Stalin who prized himself on being able to control everything. His wife also committed suicide.

His wife was Jewish, or at least part-Jewish.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
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sx
Lenin never really shunned Stalin. Lenin had more contempt for Trotsky then for Stalin. Besides, Lenin made Stalin in charge of formulating the Bolshevik Party stance on nationalities, which is seen in Stalin's famous essay "Marxism and the National Question" and later being made Commisar of Nationalities.


In his will, Lenin passed the power to Trotsky. Since Lenin was ill for a long time and his death was anticipated, Stalin managed to entrench his own power and managed to oust Trotsky (and later assassinate him) despite Lenin's final wishes.

His wife was Jewish, or at least part-Jewish.

His first wife was Georgian, and his second wife was of Georgian and German ancestry.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
The one important thing often forgotten in regards to Lenin's last testament is the fact he criticised and attacked the flaws of many in the Central Committee, including Trotsky.

It is rather odd that in such a short period of time, Lenin's opinion of both Stalin and Trotsky would make such dramatic reversals. For years, Lenin engaged in vicious attacks against Trotsky, even coining the nickname "Judas Trotsky"(falsely attributed to Stalin). By contrast, Lenin over the years had a good opinion of the "Wonderful Georgian" - how Lenin described Stalin upon first meeting him.

Anyways....I'll get more into this later.
 

Mondo

Welcome to Sunnyside
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,992
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
I think his methods of dealing with people were a little too aggressive to be ISTJ- I think ESTJ is a better fit.
Any type who feels ashamed of him/herself would hide for days.
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
I think his methods of dealing with people were a little too aggressive to be ISTJ- I think ESTJ is a better fit.
Any type who feels ashamed of him/herself would hide for days.
Right. He was a Te Si. The Si was a way higher than the Si of most ISTJs, although it is their primary function. But the Te was higher still. That is, he had extreme control, but the drive was even more extreme. A spider.
 

energy

New member
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
14
MBTI Type
WXYZ
ESTJ or ISTP, can't decide which.

ISTP because of his manuevering and elimination of enemies within the party after lenin had a stroke. ESTJs are usually too dumb for this kind of thing. Stalin was also kinf of introverted. ISTps are more machievellian than ESTJs.
 

Edgar

Nerd King Usurper
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
4,266
MBTI Type
INTJ
Instinctual Variant
sx
ESTJ or ISTP, can't decide which.

ISTP because of his manuevering and elimination of enemies within the party after lenin had a stroke. ESTJs are usually too dumb for this kind of thing. Stalin was also kinf of introverted. ISTps are more machievellian than ESTJs.

Stalin wasn't really Machiavellian. Being Machiavellian involves playing political games, forming and breaking alliances, using opportunistic diplomacy, etc.

Stalin wasn't into that kind of stuff. He followed no bullshit type of approach: "Says here he studied economics in Sorbonne before the revolution. Shoot him, and send his family to the gulag for re-education"
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
ESTJ or ISTP, can't decide which.

ISTP because of his manuevering and elimination of enemies within the party after lenin had a stroke. ESTJs are usually too dumb for this kind of thing. Stalin was also kinf of introverted. ISTps are more machievellian than ESTJs.
I have read hundreds of books of Stalin. If you say a specific type is dumb, you show only bias. No offence. Intelligence is not about type.
ISTP is no planner. My brother is an ISTP. The ISTPs see an occasion, and they grab it.
The ESTJs create the occasion.
I say Stalin was an ESTJ.
He had a high Ni. His Si was higher. He was a man afraid, a meticulous planner. He had an average Se, and an inferior Ne.
His primary function was Te.
 

6sticks

New member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
424
MBTI Type
istp
ISTJ, and anyone who disagrees is an enemy of the people.
 

Valiant

Courage is immortality
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
3,895
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
ESTJ is the epitome of ordinary... Wouldn't call Stalin just that without flinching. I'd probably look around for cultural factors that might portray him as, say, a sensor.
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
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INTP
ESTJ is the epitome of ordinary... Wouldn't call Stalin just that without flinching. I'd probably look around for cultural factors that might portray him as, say, a sensor.
Ordinary is not a definition of type.
 

Jack Flak

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
9,098
MBTI Type
type
Ordinary is not a definition of type.
Check out the big brain on wildcat! You a smart m-f-er, that's right.

It's one of the more common types, and a type associated with the ordinary. Those who maintain the infrastructure of the society I believe we both occupy are very often ESTJ.

That said, I would probably pick ESTJ for Stalin as well, but I don't know his history as well as others here.
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
Check out the big brain on wildcat! You a smart m-f-er, that's right.

It's one of the more common types, and a type associated with the ordinary. Those who maintain the infrastructure of the society I believe we both occupy are very often ESTJ.

That said, I would probably pick ESTJ for Stalin as well, but I don't know his history as well as others here.
I rephrase.

Ordinary is not a definition of type per se. ESTJ is one of the more common types.
Stalin was not ordinary. It is ordinary to have Te as the primary function.
That is not the point. The point is HIS Te. And HIS Si.

I said his Si was a way higher than the Si of the ISTJs. It is their first function.
Read: His Si was extraordinary. His Te was even higher than his Si.
Stalin was an ESTJ. He was extraordinary.
We have no disagreement.
 
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