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  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    *blinks* If something has a direct impact on how you can live your life doesn't that by itself deserve some respect irrespective of how it obtained that status? Or do you live so much by your Ti that the external world means nothing to you?

    Come to think of it... have you ever wonder about why we have politics? All well-structured human societies have some forms of it. If you think more deeply about it, perhaps you can learn to appreciate the fine art of power games and manipulation from the study of politics... and base on that come to a better understanding of human nature.

    There wouldnt be a need for politics had people been honest with each other. They only abound because of their image consciousness and will be a lasting monument of human vanity.

  2. #22
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    There wouldnt be a need for politics had people been honest with each other. They only abound because of their image consciousness and will be a lasting monument of human vanity.
    But if everybody was honest about everything nothing will get done! Do you think people want to hear about I want this done because it will personally benefit me? Governments are set up because society has gotten too complex to effectively get opinion from everybody in order to make everyday mundane decisions. So we have special assemblies selected to make these decisions for us assuming they have our best interest in mind. But reality is that people really only care about themselves... therefore in order to run that government there has to be a withholding of information... and that eventually leads to politics. Yes, the system is flawed, but its a necessary evil for a complex society.

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    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    But if everybody was honest about everything nothing will get done! Do you think people want to hear about I want this done because it will personally benefit me? Governments are set up because society has gotten too complex to effectively get opinion from everybody in order to make everyday mundane decisions. So we have special assemblies selected to make these decisions for us assuming they have our best interest in mind. But reality is that people really only care about themselves... therefore in order to run that government there has to be a withholding of information... and that eventually leads to politics. Yes, the system is flawed, but its a necessary evil for a complex society.
    If everyone was honest we would be in paradise within five years. We still would be able to work out a plan for what needs to be done, yet co-operation would be much easier because it would be clear where everyone stands and what can be expected of people in the future. It is a necessary evil, but once again only because of the stupidity and vanity that are integral to human nature.

  4. #24
    Reigning Bologna Princess Rajah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    What's the difference between syntax and grammar, anyway? Someone explained it to me a few years ago, but I've forgotten.
    Like Ivy said, syntax is a component of grammar (grammar also includes stuff like tense). Syntax is concerned with the rules of how sentences are constructed. Modern linguistic syntax study tries to find general rules to cover all language (not just English).

    It's also not the same as traditional grammar, in that linguists try to describe what's going on, not give prescriptive rules for how things should be (i.e. a linguist wouldn't care about whether or not we should end a sentence with a preposition).


    I... suppose. Yeah!

  5. #25
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    Its tasks 'need' to be accomplished...
    They will be accomplished, one way or another. Power abhors a vacuum.

    Politics is how we decide who gets what. If two people want the same thing, there is politics. Since you can't get away from it, you might as well make politics work for you if you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    There wouldnt be a need for politics had people been honest with each other.
    If people were always honest we'd have honest politics. And that's a good thing.

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    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    They will be accomplished, one way or another. Power abhors a vacuum.

    Politics is how we decide who gets what. If two people want the same thing, there is politics. Since you can't get away from it, you might as well make politics work for you if you can.


    If people were always honest we'd have honest politics. And that's a good thing.
    Well wait, they first would make agreements on how things are to be run and they all would establish fair expectations from one another, and when problems arise they know who to turn to and what to expect of them and will be honest and clear in communication. There wouldnt even be any conflict because the system would be working out perfectly as everyone's needs would be obvious.

    This indeed would be paradise. I am not saying that dishonesty is the root of all evil, yet it is perhaps one way that our wicked nature manifests.

  7. #27
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Well wait, they first would make agreements on how things are to be run and they all would establish fair expectations from one another, and when problems arise they know who to turn to and what to expect of them and will be honest and clear in communication. There wouldnt even be any conflict because the system would be working out perfectly as everyone's needs would be obvious.

    This indeed would be paradise. I am not saying that dishonesty is the root of all evil, yet it is perhaps one way that our wicked nature manifests.
    You mean like Utopia? That only works if there's unlimited amount of resources... otherwise we have to set restrictions on what people can or cannot do. Including very strict population control. Then give it a few generation's time... nobody would remember where those rules orginated from. Short of constant renewal of the laws, such a society will be no different from what we have right now. Therefore the size of the community has to be small, limited to say 100s.

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    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    You mean like Utopia? That only works if there's unlimited amount of resources... otherwise we have to set restrictions on what people can or cannot do. Including very strict population control. Then give it a few generation's time... nobody would remember where those rules orginated from. Short of constant renewal of the laws, such a society will be no different from what we have right now. Therefore the size of the community has to be small, limited to say 100s.


    If people were really perfect, than they would be honest. So nonetheless because we are imperfect politics do indeed become a necessary evil.

    Hence in this case if they really were perfect and honest in effect, we would not even need any laws at all, because everyone automatically would do whatever utopia requires of them as utopia would be compatible with their inner interests.

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Would someone please give me five philosophically legitimate ... reasons for why I should not regard politics as a sorry business?
    Well, the main reason is because politicians never say they're sorry. They just blame someone else or find excuses.

    Uh, more seriously:
    1. People are imperfect.
    2. People are often selfish.
    3. People are often short-sighted.
    4. Large groups of people cannot mobilize/make decisions quickly.
    5. Fat stupid people like Rush Limbaugh would be out of a job and on social welfare.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, the main reason is because politicians never say they're sorry. They just blame someone else or find excuses.

    Uh, more seriously:
    1. People are imperfect.
    2. People are often selfish.
    3. People are often short-sighted.
    4. Large groups of people cannot mobilize/make decisions quickly.
    5. Fat stupid people like Rush Limbaugh would be out of a job and on social welfare.
    This only supports my thesis of the necessity to recognize the radical stupidity immanent within human nature.

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