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  1. #31
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Allegations are one thing. Facts are another. If she did so many unethical things, it seems difficult to believe she would have been voted in as a senator, selected as secretary of state, winning the democratic nomination - all the while remaining untouched. Why wouldn't she have been charged with something and convicted? I read the report on the email server thing and am not convinced she did anything that other previous secretary of state's had done. Did she exercise poor judgment? Yes, and she admits that, however there was no smoking gun. Maybe there never has been.
    I posted the video of the sniper fire claim in this thread.

    There have been numerous smoking guns. The problem is lying isn't a crime (unless to the FBI or under oath). It is a moral failing.

    And the people of NY were OK with her moral failings, that is all.

    Ken Starr did prepare an indictment of her. He made a political choice not to prosecute.

    Likewise, the GWB administration made the political choice not to pursue pardons for payoffs.

    The email stuff is clear. And extremely illegal. And obviously designed to avoid disclosure. And she lied about it for months. It is a crime no matter the intent. The only way she wouldn't be indicted is if Obama makes the political choice to protect her.

    If you need details, I will post a thread with lots of references you can review. When I have time.....

    Unfortunately in this world today, the rich and the powerful get away with crimes, while the poor get the boot of the government. A nice book on this topic is The Divide by Matt Taibbi. I have any article I need to post about a drug company causing the deaths of thousands with only a financial slap on the wrist.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984
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  2. #32
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    What I wanted to test with this thread is how much people are ready to overlook the few flaws of a political figure if this person has good leadership skills ?


    Why point out just flaws and insist on flaws ? Elections are a contests but if only flaws and cheap attacks are present then the whole atmosphere looses touch with reality and with what elections should be ... something constructive.
    The issue with Hillary is that she hasn't demonstrated good leadership skills. Maybe one can make an argument for Bill but she's not Bill.

    Going back to the email scandal and if we accept the minimal excuse of her just being ignorant and incompetent with highly sensitive information, and then throwing aids on the sword, does that exhibit great leadership qualities? And that's not even talking about the Benghazi fiasco. That's not just a few flaws, those are fatal flaws.
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  3. #33
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Ken Starr did prepare an indictment of her. He made a political choice not to prosecute.
    Yeah, the guy who almost got the president removed from office because he had an affair with someone on his staff. Of course Kennedy was far worse but he's revered. It became fashionable to go after Presidents after Nixon. Why not go after their wives too?

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  4. #34
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNP-TBA View Post
    The issue with Hillary is that she hasn't demonstrated good leadership skills. Maybe one can make an argument for Bill but she's not Bill.

    Going back to the email scandal and if we accept the minimal excuse of her just being ignorant and incompetent with highly sensitive information, and then throwing aids on the sword, does that exhibit great leadership qualities? And that's not even talking about the Benghazi fiasco. That's not just a few flaws, those are fatal flaws.

    I was asking this in much more abstract way, however the thread became concrete.
    In theory if you compare two people one can have more flaws than the other one, however that doesn't mean that first person can't have more good traits as well.


    Btw I see this is going around and around without any indication of stoping: Does anyone even know what was in those problematic E-mails ?

  5. #35
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yeah, the guy who almost got the president removed from office because he had an affair with someone on his staff. Of course Kennedy was far worse but he's revered. It became fashionable to go after Presidents after Nixon. Why not go after their wives too?
    Kennedy was incompetent but the press loved the myth and mythmaking of Camelot. He was on the path to losing reelection in 64 if he hadn't been assassinated.

    Clinton was not impeached for having an affair. Bill Clinton lied under oath. He committed perjury. He was disbarred over this and has not held a law license since then. He lacks the moral terpretitude to be an attorney (which is really saying something given the profession).

    The impact of his perjury was huge. In courts around the country, people used his perjury to justify their own.

    Our entire system is based upon trust and law. If the leaders are above the law, then the people become more corrupt.

    The only reason Clinton was not removed from office was politics. It was a very hard statement about the decline of our country from just a few decades earlier.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  6. #36
    Google "chemtrails" Bush's Avatar
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    It's mostly about how morality and trustworthiness would drive behavior, especially when it comes to rapport and support.

    The perception is that it matters to the extent that it drives his actions and strategies, how other folks (especially world leaders) receive him, and so on. Will he keep his promises? Will he support his allies? Will he play well with other countries?
    J. Scott Crothers
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    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
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  7. #37
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Kennedy was incompetent but the press loved the myth and mythmaking of Camelot. He was on the path to losing reelection in 64 if he hadn't been assassinated.

    Clinton was not impeached for having an affair. Bill Clinton lied under oath. He committed perjury. He was disbarred over this and has not held a law license since then. He lacks the moral terpretitude to be an attorney (which is really saying something given the profession).

    The impact of his perjury was huge. In courts around the country, people used his perjury to justify their own.

    Our entire system is based upon trust and law. If the leaders are above the law, then the people become more corrupt.

    The only reason Clinton was not removed from office was politics. It was a very hard statement about the decline of our country from just a few decades earlier.....
    But what did he lie about? "Not having sexual relations with that woman"?

    The whole thing was a circus. I remember being in Europe at the time and the French saying (french accent added), "But what is the big deal? This would not be a problem in my country."

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  8. #38
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    But what did he lie about? "Not having sexual relations with that woman"?

    The whole thing was a circus. I remember being in Europe at the time and the French saying (french accent added), "But what is the big deal? This would not be a problem in my country."
    Again, nothing prevented him from just being honest. He could admitted his adulterous acts and moved on. The Democrats wouldn't have cared. Lying was stupid, but the stupidity was on him.

    He & Hillary are all about the cover up. I just read a New Yorker piece, that while glowing of Hillary, highlighted how defensive and insincere she is in public and alleged she is more open in public.

    Both could use a serious dose of Brené Brown and learn to be vulnerable......
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  9. #39
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Again, nothing prevented him from just being honest. He could admitted his adulterous acts and moved on. The Democrats wouldn't have cared. Lying was stupid, but the stupidity was on him.
    Nothing prevented him from being honest? How many people lie about affairs to their spouses let alone putting them on national TV and asking those kinds of questions. Don't people have anything better to do? It was a farce driven by partisan politics and most of the American people knew that which is why he stayed in office.

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  10. #40
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Nothing prevented him from being honest? How many people lie about affairs to their spouses let alone putting them on national TV and asking those kinds of questions. Don't people have anything better to do? It was a farce driven by partisan politics and most of the American people knew that which is why he stayed in office.
    No. Hillary and Bill had so many pissy little corruptions in Arkansas that caused all the trouble. It was not a partisan issue. It was the last legacy of the independent counsel law, from the Watergate era. There used to be lots of independent counsel investigations during the Reagan Administration. Nothing new or unique with Clinton.

    Except most everything revolved around Hillary and her covering up her corruption.

    Again, Bill could have just told the truth. Help the country value honesty. Maybe he could have started some honest discussions over sex. He would not have been impeached over it.

    And Hillary knew all about Bill's affairs. She had a staffer on detail to deal with his "bimbo eruptions".

    So, Bill made the coward's choice. He could have just said, "Yes, we had a good time. And that isn't a public matter and why does it matter to anyone but me, the young lady, and my wife."

    Likewise, most of all of Hillary's lies and cover ups were to protect her image...... and future electability.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

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