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  1. #21
    Globalist Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't think character or experience really matters to voters. What matters to people is charisma, and that's about it. We can discuss who has more qualifications or who is more honest or more likely to save puppies from a burning building, but what people like to vote for is someone charismatic or likeable.

  2. #22
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I think the point is - one's character as a politician has a Venn diagram quality to it.

    Great character won't get you a win, necessarily. Not so great character won't get you a loss, necessarily.

    Character doesn't make the candidate but it doesn't destroy them either. Not when other matters such as policy, and other traits such as experience and competence are valued and overlap in leadership positions.

    Where do the voters draw their subjective line? This is what every voter has to answer for themselves.

    The character of a politician is counter-balanced against an opposing or alternative. One which may be a different kind of subjective moral dilemma.
    There are four main factors that people weigh, according to political scientists: competency, intergity, leadership, and empathy. General likeability plays a huge factor as well (GWB hit high on this one, frat boy party boy that he was).

    I suspect (especially after reading some Jonathan Haidt recently) that people pick candidates mostly due to pure emotional processes and then create reasoning afterwards. Yes, even Ts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

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    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
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  3. #23
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Lol. Silly. Maybe they never heard Hillary did numerous things as Secretary of State to benefit Clinton Foundation donors.

    Or lied repeatedly about her venal corruption in Arkansas (including stealing the Rose Law Firm records to hide that she was heavily involved in a failed S&L.)

    Or when she lied about Travelgate ( illegally getting FBI files to destroy people's careers so she could bring in a crony from Arkansas)....

    Or that sniper fire in Yugoslavia.....except there is beautiful footage of her doing a meet and great on the tarmac.....

    And there are her lies on Benghazi and her email.......

    And I could list many more off the top of my head.

    There are very few outside of Hillary supporters that would call her honest...... and most Hillary supporters accept her struggles with honesty... ..
    How do you know these things are true?

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  4. #24
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post

    Or that sniper fire in Yugoslavia.....except there is beautiful footage of her doing a meet and great on the tarmac.....
    Yeah, that one is trully questionable. If someone were to do that this would almost surely trigger serious political consequences. (for which I never heard)

  5. #25
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    Honestly, I don't think character or experience really matters to voters. What matters to people is charisma, and that's about it. We can discuss who has more qualifications or who is more honest or more likely to save puppies from a burning building, but what people like to vote for is someone charismatic or likeable.
    Charisma as long as it relates to issues voters, the vast majority of whom are lower middle class to middle class (which is rapidly diminishing sadly), resonate with directly. If you live in a place where Coal mining is the backbone of the local economy, or Corn, or semi-conductors, or a place where jobs are evaporating by being exported, you're going to listen to the guy/gal that speaks to those issues. You're going to follow him/her if you believe he/she has the 'charisma' and willpower/resolve to actually do something about it. Someone can talk about 'issues' but if they can't demonstrate they have a 'force of will' to make it actionable then they won't get as much support as the person who does.
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  6. #26
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    How do you know these things are true?
    What do you mean? I can post article after article.

    On the sniper fire, she said it over and over the years, but there is a video of her landing.

    On the favors as secretary of state, there have been recent articles on this. Scummy folks giving millions to the Clinton Foundation and favors Hillary did in response.

    On her 90s junk, the documentation is all there. The sheer volume of stuff is amazing. There have been recent articles on it...

    The email server violates so many laws. It was never a question if she violated the law.

    So, she lies. Mostly to protect herself after errors and corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  7. #27
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Yeah, that one is trully questionable. If someone were to do that this would almost surely trigger serious political consequences. (for which I never heard)
    Her is the CBS News report on this topic.



    She had repeated the lie for years before a journalist actually went back and did some journalism and look at their old footage.....easy to confirm or deny.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

    9w8 6w5 4w5 sx/so

    ----------------------

    “Orthodoxy means not thinking--not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984

  8. #28
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    What do you mean? I can post article after article.

    On the sniper fire, she said it over and over the years, but there is a video of her landing.

    On the favors as secretary of state, there have been recent articles on this. Scummy folks giving millions to the Clinton Foundation and favors Hillary did in response.

    On her 90s junk, the documentation is all there. The sheer volume of stuff is amazing. There have been recent articles on it...

    The email server violates so many laws. It was never a question if she violated the law.

    So, she lies. Mostly to protect herself after errors and corruption.
    Allegations are one thing. Facts are another. If she did so many unethical things, it seems difficult to believe she would have been voted in as a senator, selected as secretary of state, winning the democratic nomination - all the while remaining untouched. Why wouldn't she have been charged with something and convicted? I read the report on the email server thing and am not convinced she did anything that other previous secretary of state's had done. Did she exercise poor judgment? Yes, and she admits that, however there was no smoking gun. Maybe there never has been.

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  9. #29
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Allegations are one thing. Facts are another. If she did so many unethical things, it seems difficult to believe she would have been voted in as a senator, selected as secretary of state, winning the democratic nomination - all the while remaining untouched.
    Are you making the claim that if someone can hold a public office they are automatically absolved of unethical behavior?

    Why wouldn't she have been charged with something and convicted?
    The scandals came to light at a later time? It doesn't mean they didn't exist simply because nobody shone a light on them before.

    I read the report on the email server thing and am not convinced she did anything that other previous secretary of state's had done. Did she exercise poor judgment? Yes, and she admits that, however there was no smoking gun. Maybe there never has been.
    the State Department's Office of Inspector General has raised the stakes with the release of a remarkable report finding that Clinton's actions violated State Department policies and were inconsistent with federal record-keeping laws.

    Most crucially, the inspector general directly contradicts Clinton's repeated assertions that she complied both with federal law and State Department policies. "At a minimum," the report finds, "Secretary Clinton should have surrendered all emails dealing with Department business before leaving government service and, because she did not do so, she did not comply with Department's policies that were implemented in accordance with the Federal Records Act."

    he report goes further, noting that while Clinton's subsequent production of 55,000 pages of emails in response to State Department demands partially corrected these violations, the records Clinton turned over were incomplete. Remarkably, the report includes reference to a previously unreleased 2010 email in which Clinton, responding to her deputy chief of staff for operations, Huma Abedin, directly addresses her lack of an official State Department email account and voices a fear of the "risk of the personal being accessible" if she had one. In a briefing, State Department officials were unable to confirm the source of this email, but if it was omitted from the records Clinton produced, it again would raise questions about the process she used to distinguish between "federal records" and "personal records" before destroying the latter.


    Hillary Clinton's shrinking email defense - CNN.com

    So the Clinton defense is pleading ignorance. So either Clinton was actually committing criminal acts or, at a minimum, she's terribly incompetent with sending and receiving information. Either way, it doesn't look too stellar for a presidential candidate.
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  10. #30
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    What I wanted to test with this thread is how much people are ready to overlook the few flaws of a political figure if this person has good leadership skills ?


    Why point out just flaws and insist on flaws ? Elections are a contests but if only flaws and cheap attacks are present then the whole atmosphere looses touch with reality and with what elections should be ... something constructive.
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