User Tag List

First 56789 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 96

Thread: Harambe

  1. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    25,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    This has nothing to do with me being defensive. I'm saying it doesn't give you an adequate perspective to make an informed judgement. I'm saying that even the very best of parents have moments where something could have gone very wrong in the blink of an eye. You sit in judgement of these people and you know nothing, absolutely nothing about this situation.

    "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you." What I am saying is that you are lacking compassion for a thing you do not have the full measure of information for, and that leaves you in a position to make an error of judgement. It's not about not judging at all; it's about realizing that in judgement resides an inherent complexity that requires a great deal of wisdom in application. You judge readily without experience or information; is this the measure of judgement you wish applied to you?

    I can tell you don't have children because if you did, you'd reflect on your own experience and realize such things can easily happen, and you'd appreciate an extension of a little grace and compassion for such a breath-taking reality.
    The whole judge not thing has been taken to extremes in our age, its actually become a cause of great misery which I know from reading that the source you quote would not wish upon humankind.

    While forgiveness, were learning has taken place, is fine by me, I dont believe that refusing to exercise a little judgement in the first place is a good idea. When behaviour occurs which is in error and it goes without correction, or proper comprehension of consequences, which proper correction ought to involve, there is nothing to suggest what so ever that learning will occur on the back of the incident or behaviour and it could just repeat itself. This is basic stuff but I'm not surprised that its not popular or widely understood because the zeitgheist can not handle it at all, its leading to an under rating of all norms and their breakdown, the muddling through that remains may not be mad max town but its not going to be a bed of roses either.

    If I had children, and I've looked after children on lots of different occasions, and I encountered or read about something such as this happening I think that I would respond exactly as I have done, I'm not unreflective and its tragic that this happened but I dont believe I would permit it to happen, I dont think that you or other posters in this thread would let it happen either, simply by how you're taking an interest and posting, so I find it strange that you identify so strongly with the person who did let it happen.

  2. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    25,415

    Default

    There are solutions to this no one has considered but which would, hopefully, provide a fix, they wouldnt be to everyone's liking though.

    Visiting the zoo could be made an activity only open to those of the age of majority, children are not allowed to drive Nascar and I've noticed that there are no tragic incidents of children driving Nascars into barriers and jeopardising their safety while their parents are distracted.

    In other news did anyone see the ad for the chocolate with the gorilla playing the drums to Phil Collins music recycled as a death notice for Harambe saying that another musical ledgend had gone?

  3. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,801

    Default

    Actual gorilla expert Jane Goodall just posted an email she wrote to the Cincinnati Zoo director:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Goodall
    Dear Thane,

    I feel so sorry for you, having to try to defend something which you may well disapprove of. I tried to see exactly what was happening — it looked as though the gorilla was putting an arm [around] the child — like the female who rescued and returned the child from the Chicago exhibit.

    Anyway, whatever, it is a devastating loss to the zoo, and to the gorillas. How did the others react? Are they allowed to see, and express grief, which seems to be so important?

    Feeling for you,
    Jane
    The way her letter is being reported and circulated around social media, many are taking it as proof that Harambe meant no harm. But even Goodall herself, arguably the most famous primate expert in the world, can't discern what was happening from the videos, yet everyone is an expert on this.
    Likes Reborn Relic liked this post

  4. #64
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    N/A
    Enneagram
    N/A
    Posts
    6,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The whole judge not thing has been taken to extremes in our age, its actually become a cause of great misery which I know from reading that the source you quote would not wish upon humankind.

    While forgiveness, were learning has taken place, is fine by me, I dont believe that refusing to exercise a little judgement in the first place is a good idea. When behaviour occurs which is in error and it goes without correction, or proper comprehension of consequences, which proper correction ought to involve, there is nothing to suggest what so ever that learning will occur on the back of the incident or behaviour and it could just repeat itself. This is basic stuff but I'm not surprised that its not popular or widely understood because the zeitgheist can not handle it at all, its leading to an under rating of all norms and their breakdown, the muddling through that remains may not be mad max town but its not going to be a bed of roses either.

    If I had children, and I've looked after children on lots of different occasions, and I encountered or read about something such as this happening I think that I would respond exactly as I have done, I'm not unreflective and its tragic that this happened but I dont believe I would permit it to happen, I dont think that you or other posters in this thread would let it happen either, simply by how you're taking an interest and posting, so I find it strange that you identify so strongly with the person who did let it happen.
    I don't identify with the person, I identify with things that can happen unexpectedly, against prediction, seemingly against odds and random. Would it be your expectation that a child could get in there with the gorillas? Would it be your expectation that YOUR child could get in there? The first time a thing happens - how can one always plan for that? How many random "what if" tangents can any one person cover off? The first time my son ran through the aisles to get milk - not predictable. The first time my daughter hid in clothes racks while shopping - not predictable. That is what I identify with.

    Judging is necessary and has value yet there is heavy mantle of responsibilty inherent in judging. I see a lot of casual judgement, and yours stands out to me as lacking insight and compassion from a particular perspective that I feel has merit for consideration and if your experience included parenting, you wouldn't be so hasty to discount that.

    Yes I can see you taking this stance @bold, because you would believe only a "bad" parent could have had this happen, and would see yourself as "good" so it couldn't possibly happen under your watch. That's the thing - you can reduce risk but you can't eliminate it even with the highest vigilance.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #65
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Crabs View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me in the least. I've ceased to be amazed by all of the asinine lawsuits which have resulted in liberal judges awarding millions of dollars for irresponsible or criminal behavior.
    Yeah, it's not a new doctrine.
    It has nothing to do with liberal judges and you're largely talking out your ass about things you know nothing about.
    "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
    Norm MacDonald
    Likes Lark liked this post

  6. #66
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    25,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I don't identify with the person, I identify with things that can happen unexpectedly, against prediction, seemingly against odds and random. Would it be your expectation that a child could get in there with the gorillas? Would it be your expectation that YOUR child could get in there? The first time a thing happens - how can one always plan for that? How many random "what if" tangents can any one person cover off? The first time my son ran through the aisles to get milk - not predictable. The first time my daughter hid in clothes racks while shopping - not predictable. That is what I identify with.

    Judging is necessary and has value yet there is heavy mantle of responsibilty inherent in judging. I see a lot of casual judgement, and yours stands out to me as lacking insight and compassion from a particular perspective that I feel has merit for consideration and if your experience included parenting, you wouldn't be so hasty to discount that.

    Yes I can see you taking this stance @bold, because you would believe only a "bad" parent could have had this happen, and would see yourself as "good" so it couldn't possibly happen under your watch. That's the thing - you can reduce risk but you can't eliminate it even with the highest vigilance.
    Yeah, there's intractable differences here.

  7. #67
    A wannabe dog
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    466

    Default

    It's just so wrong to kill the animal. People who justify killing animals are very sick in their minds. Valuing a life over another life is a very sick thing to do. Animals are living things too and they deserve to have the same priority to live in this world like the way humans do. It's just so cruel to kill the gorilla especially when the gorilla didn't have any ill intentions toward the boy.
    If you look carefully in the video, you will realize that there is a part in the video where the gorilla actually helped the little boy to adjust his pants. The gorilla was being protective toward the little boy, not aggressive.

    If there is anyone who deserves to get killed in this incident, it's the little boy's mother. Why isn't she holding his hands anyway?

  8. #68
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    5,319

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny View Post
    It's just so wrong to kill the animal. People who justify killing animals are very sick in their minds. Valuing a life over another life is a very sick thing to do. Animals are living things too and they deserve to have the same priority to live in this world like the way humans do. It's just so cruel to kill the gorilla especially when the gorilla didn't have any ill intentions toward the boy.
    If you look carefully in the video, you will realize that there is a part in the video where the gorilla actually helped the little boy to adjust his pants. The gorilla was being protective toward the little boy, not aggressive.

    If there is anyone who deserves to get killed in this incident, it's the little boy's mother. Why isn't she holding his hands anyway?
    Oh.
    You people really do exist.
    Everyone in my circles has been perfectly reasonable about this so I didn't understand what the hub-bub was about.

    I suggest you start thinking seriously about humanity and values and stop being reactionary based on feels.
    "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
    Norm MacDonald

  9. #69
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Yeah, I used one for my son. They're great if you can stomach the occasional "why are you treating your child like a dog?!" sanctimony from strangers.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #70
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    So can most non-strangers tbh.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO