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Thread: Harambe

  1. #21
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  2. #22
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    Reminds me of when I was a Guardian Ad Litem for the state.

    Whenever there was an animal abuse case there would be protesters. The courtroom would be full.

    In a different courtroom, the custody hearing of a man who physically abused his son was going on. No one there.

    It's not a judgement. More an observation. I remember when that picture of the dead Syrian boy washed up on the beach. I'm hearing a lot more about this gorilla.

    I don't know. Not saying they are related, that you can't care about both - more that there is a public discrepancy in both.

    I find it interesting psychologically, that when an animal is hurt it is easier to rally around the defense of it. Mainly because animals are a blank slate for all of our softness and vulnerability.

    When it is a human, we assign blame and want to look away because it reflects our darkest behaviors, not our softest ones.

    Just a thought.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    They may not be sound sources. Journalists aren't like cops...they don't have to corroborate what people tell them. it only has to be true that somebody told them it was said for them to print it. it doesn't have to actually be said. That gives people ample room to stir the pot.
    This is a possibility. When people attend the zoo, amusement park, restaurants, etc. with their children we expect the parents to watch them, rather closely in fact. The Zoo is a perfect place to explain what fences are for.

    He didn't climb over it. And I wouldn't call it a wall...it was a "barrier" and all he had to do was crawl under a railing and through some bushes. Presto, he's in. It was poorly done. They needed a second barrier, for one, and one better made. The fact a four year old was able to get past it easily presumes the zoo's negligence. This isn't some super human kid with the power to walk through fire. And you're right, they had no security around the exhibit. They must've been trying to cut corners.

    If the kid jumped out of an airplane with a parachute on and landed in the gorilla exhibit, then I would not blame the zoo. But this is a foreseeable accident...its realistic to assume that a few parents may not keep the best eye on their kid, or that a kid may get lost or break away from a parent and make a run for it if they see a hole in the "barrier" they can slip through. It's not like parents go there with a collar and leash on the kid. So bottom line is it's up to the zoo to take that into account when they build the exhibit and invite the public in. And unless you have access to the 'books' you don't know how many incidents or close calls the zoo has had since opening in '78. and that's assuming such incidents were even recorded on the books and/or that they are still on file. naturally the zoo wants to downplay its negligence so I would expect "pro-zoo PR". In the end, it all comes back to the horrendously constructed exhibit.
    All the more reason to keep an eye on your offspring.

    They sell these at some zoos and they are sold online as "zoo safety harness". Whens the last time you visited your local zoo? They are overpopulated with children, a good amount of them are equipped with these "leashes".



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  4. #24
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Personally, and maybe this is a personal failing, but I have never assumed that my kid could actually get into any of the habitats at the zoo. I worried about losing track of him in general, but not because I thought he'd get in with the animals. Honestly I worried more about human predators than animal ones at our zoo.

    I've always assumed that the people who planned them had the exhibits engineered such that people literally could not get in with the animals. If I were a zoo engineer I would put exactly 0 trust in the public. With thousands of people visiting daily, even if the chances are slim that any given guest will try to get in with the animals, odds are eventually it's going to happen. Putting any level of trust in the public, whether to have good judgment about trying to climb in with the animals, or to have one's children in sight at all times, would be foolish of the people whose JOB IT IS to make these places safe.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I was not aware that child neglect had any fans.

    I would not advocate killing any animal if there was an alternative but in this case, I don't see one.
    A preliminary thought as to what one could be:

    1. Have multiple entrances and exits into and from the enclosure, for ease of zookeeper access and for ease of pulling shit under the noses of the animals.
    2. Have cameras in every enclosure so that stuff like this can be caught by security.
    3. Have zookepers quickly be alerted to the scene so that they can disperse any kind of crowd.
    4. Have zookeepers bring food to the gorilla (perhaps laced with sedatives)
    5. Have another zookeeper enter the enclosure from a different area and get the kid to come out with them (perhaps enticing them with something else cool, perhaps using sedatives again--that sounds bad, I know, but it's momentary unconsciousness or looped-outness. Wouldn't equate it with longer such periods or death)

    There are some risks to it, but it's loads better than tranquilizers in this situation, and might work better than expected as well.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

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  6. #26
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    ^I had no idea we had a real wildlife biologist with extensive zoo experience in our midst! Wow, what an honor.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    ^I had no idea we had a real wildlife biologist with extensive zoo experience in our midst! Wow, what an honor.
    Nah, I'm not. XD That doesn't make me wrong, either--fields improve over time. I'd like to get the opinion of actual wildlife biologists on this idea, of course, but you kind of have to make it known first, or otherwise they won't tell you jack.

    And hey, people get inspiration from weird shit. Maybe if an actual wildlife biologist who understands the flaws in my idea looks it over, they can correct for them and get something better.

    Also, there's nothing here that indicates a consensus among the experts that killing the gorilla was the only solution and there was no way to avoid doing so. I could probably find a scientist out there that tells me global warming is fake, but that scientist can and should be treated like a drop in the ocean, unless the proof is really compelling.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

    --Theodore Roosevelt


    “Be careful, lest in casting out your demon you exorcise the best thing in you.”

    --Friedrich Nietzche

    I have a Johari again

  8. #28
    this call is bein taped asynartetic's Avatar
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    Stupid little shit.

    One less human on the earth that is already overpopulated with humans vs one less male of an endangered species?

  9. #29
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    Stupid little shit.

    One less human on the earth that is already overpopulated with humans vs one less male of an endangered species?
    Don't you have kids? I assume (perhaps wrongly) you'd feel different if it were yours. Yes, three year old children are frequently little shits, mine and yours included, but it does not mean they deserve to be torn apart by gorillas. Grown-ass adults are frequently large shits and same thing.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Don't you have kids? I assume (perhaps wrongly) you'd feel different if it were yours. Yes, three year old children are frequently little shits, mine and yours included, but it does not mean they deserve to be torn apart by gorillas. Grown-ass adults are frequently large shits and same thing.
    I don't hit my child but I might make an exception to that rule if he were to do something as stupid as that and survive. Some cute stunt leads to an enslaved animal's death and it's very difficult to feel sympathy for that kid, whether mine or not.

    Some idiot dad lifted his son into the black bear habitat at our city park a few years ago and SURPRISE, the boy was bitten, and SURPRISE, the bear had to be put to death, all because someone thought it would be a cute stunt to climb into a habitat with an animal who is already probably stressed the fuck out from living in a cage.

    If we keep these creatures in captivity to be stared at every day, the least visitors can do is show them a basic level of respect, or in other words, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR SPACE.

    Also, if my son were stupid enough to try something like this (which I doubt, because I've drilled into his head the danger of FUCKING WITH ANIMALS since he was a wee sprout), then maybe it's possible he isn't cut out for survival to begin with.

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