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  1. #1
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    You guys really should read this.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    What -- HA Goodman?

    Yeah, thanks, I'll pass.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    The article is good. My historical perception of both Roosevelts isn't that that great and I don't think Reagan was a saint like most of the conservatives do (I'm not conservative).

    This part:

    With Sanders against the Trans-Pacific Partnership and has made an issue of America's shrinking manufacturing sector, President Reagan's policies mirrored the concerns of Vermont's junior senator. When the auto industry needed government intervention, Reagan stated, "I have proposed an acceleration in the rate of government purchases of motor vehicles." As for the belief that Reagan kept government away from industry, the Gipper also stated: "The U.S. Government will spend about $100 million more on government vehicles this fiscal year, which, while helping the industry, will also lower the government's operating costs." In addition, a New York Times article highlights that Reagan was always willing to utilize government's influence in order to help business:

    Reagan often broke with free-trade dogma. He arranged for voluntary restraint agreements to limit imports of automobiles and steel. He provided temporary import relief for Harley-Davidson. He limited imports of sugar and textiles.


    Sanders is absolutely right about the so-called free trade deals and he wont get any argument there from me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    What -- HA Goodman?

    Yeah, thanks, I'll pass.
    I have other sources aside from this individual if you are biased. Sanders actually likes to quote Theodore Roosevelt, and the Republicans who like Bernie note some of his similarities to Reagan.

    I know you have an intense bias towards Hillary, and think Bernie is an "extremist" but he's actually not...and you'll notice more conservatives are comfortable with Bernie, which means he's addressing issues both sides care about.

    Hillary Clinton is primarily moderate because of her beliefs in neoliberal corporatism, and fracking, which means she shares more with neoconservatives than true conservatives.

    Error Page

    Sanders is more congruent to an FDR democrat than Hillary is as well. He's not an "extremist" unless you buy into ignorant shrieking about socialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZNP-TBA View Post
    The article is good. My historical perception of both Roosevelts isn't that that great and I don't think Reagan was a saint like most of the conservatives do (I'm not conservative).

    This part:

    With Sanders against the Trans-Pacific Partnership and has made an issue of America's shrinking manufacturing sector, President Reagan's policies mirrored the concerns of Vermont's junior senator. When the auto industry needed government intervention, Reagan stated, "I have proposed an acceleration in the rate of government purchases of motor vehicles." As for the belief that Reagan kept government away from industry, the Gipper also stated: "The U.S. Government will spend about $100 million more on government vehicles this fiscal year, which, while helping the industry, will also lower the government's operating costs." In addition, a New York Times article highlights that Reagan was always willing to utilize government's influence in order to help business:

    Reagan often broke with free-trade dogma. He arranged for voluntary restraint agreements to limit imports of automobiles and steel. He provided temporary import relief for Harley-Davidson. He limited imports of sugar and textiles.


    Sanders is absolutely right about the so-called free trade deals and he wont get any argument there from me.
    I don't think Reagan was a saint but I'd take him over Bush or Trump, and he was much more moderate than today's Republican party, and had the diplomacy skills to help end the Cold War.

    FDR brought the US out of the Great Depression, which is a fairly monumental achievement, and while Teddy was a Republican he is responsible for massive nature and land conservation in the form of national parks and observed 100 years ago the problem with allowing banks to run the economy.

    I'll note for future reference that you aren't a conservative. I'm glad we agree on TPP.
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  7. #7
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    FDR brought the US out of the Great Depression, which is a fairly monumental achievement,
    Debatable. I think there's good arguments to show that some of his earlier policies prolonged it but I can see how and why the majority of Americans consider him positively. It's definitely myth mixed with fact.

    and while Teddy was a Republican he is responsible for massive nature and land conservation in the form of national parks and observed 100 years ago the problem with allowing banks to run the economy.
    I think Teddy was more of a progressive if that's what you're getting at. He also had a very aggressive foreign policy not seen before in American politics at that time. Gotta weigh both Teddy and FDR evenly

    Curious, what are your thoughts on Woodrow Wilson?

    I'll note for future reference that you aren't a conservative. I'm glad we agree on TPP.
    I think you and I are similar in the sense that we can't be neatly fit into any particular box. It's clear we have nuanced views that are not some common packaged viewpoint. Honestly at first I thought you were just another bleeding heart but I see that's not completely accurate. I'm not conservative or liberal, perhaps libertarian to some degree. It's literally a case by case thing with all the issues.

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    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    American Socialism is different than Marxist Socialism, Chinese Socialism, and even Western European Socialism.
    Yes, it's like a Welfare state fueled by Neo-Keynesianism.

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    Let's re-animate their dead corpses and have them take one of those online personality tests like those on Buzzfeed: "What is your presidential style? Trump, Hillary or Bernie?"

    "BRAAAIINNNSSS"

    "No, Mr. Roosevelt, I'm afraid that is not one of the options listed. Pick again."

    ----

    Sorry. Carry on with your thread.

  10. #10
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    I don't think Reagan was a saint but I'd take him over Bush or Trump, and he was much more moderate than today's Republican party, and had the diplomacy skills to help end the Cold War.

    FDR brought the US out of the Great Depression, which is a fairly monumental achievement, and while Teddy was a Republican he is responsible for massive nature and land conservation in the form of national parks and observed 100 years ago the problem with allowing banks to run the economy.
    I agree with you about the Roosevelts, but I would take Bush Sr. over Reagan, though Reagan over Trump, to be sure. Reagan is the most overrated president of the 20th century. The cold war ended because the USSR was bankrupt by the arms race, a race we ran steadily from the end of WWII. It just all happened to come down on Reagan's watch. He gave us the Iran Contra scandal, and worked to turn identifiable groups against each other much as Trump does, though in a more charming and sophisticated way. He was a hypocrite, increasing the size of government and raising taxes while promising to do the opposite. In short, he was America's Evita; an accomplished cheerleader-in-chief, but little more:

    "instead of government we had a stage
    instead of ideas, a prima donna's rage
    instead of help we were given a crowd
    she didn't say much but she said it loud"
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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