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  1. #11
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    What I think will actually happen in the next 50 years?
    - Australia will still have a ban on guns
    - Texas will have wild-west style open carry (hopefully sooner than later)
    - The united states will still be squabbling like children about the issue because emotions and fuck compromise that the nation was founded on
    - The world will not even be beginning to think about worldwide control of weapons outside of tracking who is selling what to who, and who is getting illegal stuff from who.
    Yeah I have the suspicion that it will remain generally the same unless some kind of game changer comes along such as gauss or some of the other possible avenues for weapons come along.

    Thinking about developments in weapons, you would think that black powder weapons would be generally legal as they are almost completely irrelevant now (figure it'd be less hassle to harm someone with a nerf gun than those things) but what about the new electronic sight & trigger they're making in texas where you can mark your target and the sight will almost take over the aiming bit, you just squeeze the trigger and it'll fire when you point it the right way?

    To take it to extremes, when we develop man portable laser weapons, should they be legal/illegal? What about plasma?

    I think that if you had to start from scratch with gun control in an area it would look very different from most approaches in use today. Even Britain's laws confuse me. You can't have a gun except one which works wonders at urban warfare (2 shots aside) and can be modified by a trained gorilla to be concealable. I have to wonder if 10 gauge is legal. What about 4?

    Oh and kyuuei, it definitely weird how much your upbringing affects how you look at guns. In the UK the police sometimes carry in the airport but they're probably the one copper you would never approach for any reason unless you saw someone who might need shooting. A gun almost forms a three metre exclusion zone where no one wants to be.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #12
    Junior Member JjJot's Avatar
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    For peaceful people to put peaceful leaders in office is the goal, but every time that does not happen, the pendulum swings the other way and puts people in fear and gives them (in their mind) valid excuses to depend on guns. Guns have their origin in (1) aggression - I impose/steal (2) fear - I don't want you to bother/steal from me.

    Guns are an issue, but the more you attack the underlying issues, the less dependency on guns you will see. Keeping aggression out of public office by means of an educated society on a world wide basis seems to me to be the only real long-term solution. While this seems almost impossible, I guess it is well worth the intellectual fight, and the world could see big gains in this sense putting one foot in front of the other... putting knowledge to use before violence.

    In the end, I believe guns will only go away to the measure that violence becomes taboo in a society and people find solutions in knowledge instead. Dependency on guns is all interconnected cause and effect.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Getting back to the OP briefly:

    Sure, the world is moving towards "global community," but what does that actually mean, from a practical standpoint?

    I can't see in the near future countries ALL somehow agreeing to the same laws, so it kind of makes the topic moot for right now, doesn't it? I mean, it wouldn't just be guns -- it would be politics, religious, cultural influences, and whatever else -- EVERYTHING else -- that would be shared in that kind of situation and that's something I just don't see occurring in the next thirty years. There is not going to be some kind of global law regarding personal firearms, not while individual countries are still maintaining their own set of laws to effectively manage their own individual cultures.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JjJot View Post
    For peaceful people to put peaceful leaders in office is the goal, but every time that does not happen, the pendulum swings the other way and puts people in fear and gives them (in their mind) valid excuses to depend on guns. Guns have their origin in (1) aggression - I impose/steal (2) fear - I don't want you to bother/steal from me.

    Guns are an issue, but the more you attack the underlying issues, the less dependency on guns you will see. Keeping aggression out of public office by means of an educated society on a world wide basis seems to me to be the only real long-term solution. While this seems almost impossible, I guess it is well worth the intellectual fight, and the world could see big gains in this sense putting one foot in front of the other... putting knowledge to use before violence.

    In the end, I believe guns will only go away to the measure that violence becomes taboo in a society and people find solutions in knowledge instead. Dependency on guns is all interconnected cause and effect.
    Whilst I agree with your idea that education should limit violence and the need for weaponry, don't you suspect that violence is part of being human and almost needs to be expressed? Wouldn't that keep the gun in circulation long past its usefulness?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Getting back to the OP briefly:

    Sure, the world is moving towards "global community," but what does that actually mean, from a practical standpoint?

    I can't see in the near future countries ALL somehow agreeing to the same laws, so it kind of makes the topic moot for right now, doesn't it? I mean, it wouldn't just be guns -- it would be politics, religious, cultural influences, and whatever else -- EVERYTHING else -- that would be shared in that kind of situation and that's something I just don't see occurring in the next thirty years. There is not going to be some kind of global law regarding personal firearms, not while individual countries are still maintaining their own set of laws to effectively manage their own individual cultures.
    The EU is just a start in my eyes. Free trade works best when the different areas operate in a common way. The more of a divide in cultures then the more you have to tailor your products. Consider how many more movie goers you'd get if everyone spoke the same language, for example.

    Is it really that unlikely that although we may not merge, we begin to converge?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Is it really that unlikely that although we may not merge, we begin to converge?
    Not within thirty years. Not even close.

    It's like State rights in the US, considering giving up privileges to an umbrella Federal government. The states fight fiercely, and we're part of the same country with some shared heritage, and people are actively fighting that stuff with guns and whatever else.

    Considering the vast cultural differences from country to country in the world, especially where religion and politics are not nearly the same... it's not going to happen for a long LONG time. A century? Two? Much has to change before I can see that becoming a possibility.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Not within thirty years. Not even close.

    It's like State rights in the US, considering giving up privileges to an umbrella Federal government. The states fight fiercely, and we're part of the same country with some shared heritage, and people are actively fighting that stuff with guns and whatever else.

    Considering the vast cultural differences from country to country in the world, especially where religion and politics are not nearly the same... it's not going to happen for a long LONG time. A century? Two? Much has to change before I can see that becoming a possibility.
    I regard the states as a poor example. Too much jingoism even between states.

    It's like Cornwall versus Devon all over again...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?
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  7. #17
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    I know you didn't want to bring in the 'debate', but if we're making world-wide laws, and it it were possible to enforce them, I'm surprised that you think gun ownership is the biggest problem on the planet.

  8. #18
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Lasers and railguns probably won't be legal if they become fully weaponized. The only weaponized lasers and railguns are still in research and are mainly owned by the military (lasers have been around for a while, and the US Navy completed a working railgun weapon not too long ago)

    Lasers and railguns which are powerful enough to be weapons require huge infrastructures which aren't man portable (the size of a building), and most of them are used for scientific research. They probably won't be getting any smaller any time soon.

    There are some portable coilguns and railguns which could be powerful enough to cause injury or even kill someone if you hit them right but they are hard to make, really fiddly and are usually only single shot. They're generally home made and not regulated and not really considered dangerous because nobody is murdering people or robbing banks with railguns. If they start, we can assume they'll be regulated just as much as other things that put holes in people.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    'Mericans need guns so that they can defend against their own government, like it says on their constitution. No one needs 20mm rifle for hunting lol
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #20
    Junior Member JjJot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Whilst I agree with your idea that education should limit violence and the need for weaponry, don't you suspect that violence is part of being human and almost needs to be expressed? Wouldn't that keep the gun in circulation long past its usefulness?
    Yes and no. I agree, my post was pretty black and white as to a solution. There will always be some grey, but I don't think it should detract from the main goal. As for the grey area, while I don't like guns, there is truth to the idea that "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Seeing that, a person's ability to defend themselves is good and necessary...

    I would try to say that it is "good" but not "the best". Widespread ownership of guns "as a deterrent" is OK and realistic as a solution, but an incomplete solution. Economics has a lot to do with world-wide gun ownership (gov't and private)... economist Jeffery Sachs talks a lot about this sort of thing. Violence creates poverty... and that is by those who use violence to solve their poverty (or "poverty" in quotations, greed). In this sense, violence and poverty could be seen as cyclical.

    "World-wide" gun ban is going to invoke some kind of discussion about poverty because of the above mentioned cycle. Poverty is a "perceived threat". Help to eliminate poverty, we will place less importance on guns, although, yes, they will never go away, because eliminating this cycle is such a large task (but like I said, worth the effort in the meantime)

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