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  1. #121
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    594 sx/sp
    LII Ne


    @Nicodemus (from the autobiography): Yeah, I read that the police were called and showed up at his apartment. And they said he was so polite and had complied with everything so easily that they closed the complaint. Now we know why -- if he had raised their suspicions further, they would have searched his place and found everything, ruining his plans forever. So he snookered them by playing the courteous, meek, self-effacing boy, and they left.

    He apparently was very good at playing the game.


    Sadly, he wasn't physically unattractive, and his vocabulary suggests he had a decent amount of intelligence. It makes you wonder what people sensed with him that dissuaded them from being interested, or whether he ever put out signs that he was interested and open.

    The video opening this thread seems to me to be part of his own personal brainwashing/pre-acting. it isn't uncommon for killers and some other types of criminals to enact a crime in their mind numerous times until they feel comfortable with it. I get the sense that a lot of his voicing these ideas out loud was part of him getting himself into the proper mindset to actually carry out this crime spree. When he was finally comfortable, he went forward with it.

    The nonsensicality of it was jarring. he's proving he's an alpha male by killing females? And much of the harm he did doesn't sound very alpha-ish to me, with any risk to himself; shooting unarmed people and hitting people with his car is about as cowardly as you can get. He also referred to himself as the "ultimate gentleman," but he sounds anything but. He also referred to "other men," and all I could think was that "other" is a lie -- he was just a boy and never really learned what it was to be a man. All i saw was a lonely, bitter, angry boy.

    A sad end to a sad life, and even sadder because of all the people that he took with him.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #122
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    4w5 sp/sx
    IEI Ni


    After reading this guy's "manifesto", I think (emphasis on this being my opinion expressed on an internet forum):

    - He had no mental illness as far as a "disease" that he could not control, IMO. I think he was sick in the sense that he had developed very unhealthy thought patterns & behaviors. He indulged in this. No one is to blame for these choices of his; this mental sickness was a choice & "bad habits" he developed, not a disease that arose from his genetics or severe childhood trauma. He sounds like an extremely sensitive person who dwelled on teenage teasing that was pretty normal (while not right, it's the kind of stuff many go through & come out just fine) to the point where he entered almost every new situation with the belief it would not change, especially as he believed the fault to fully lie with others. In carrying this belief with him, he self-sabotaged & adopted behavior & thinking that kept the cycle going. He fed & nurtured his hurts & dwelled distorted thoughts & sought info to confirm his biases until they grew more extreme.

    Basically, he was a nice looking kid from an upper middle class to upper class background who had some bullying at school & social awkwardness, and he chose to take a mental, emotional & behavioral path that focused on these relatively few hurts (compared to the lives of others), which then put him in a negative cycle. He had a lot of positive things he could've focused on (parents who seemed to love him, even if they ignored him a lot; male friends who did accept him, even if they were nerdy too; and a very comfortable financial/social background, even if he thought it was "embarrassing" to live in an apartment for a short time when his parents divorced; physically healthy, even if shorter/skinnier than some peers), but he chose not to see those things.

    - His parents were not bad or abusive, but neither were they good parents (from how his manifesto paints them). They sound like they were very wrapped up in their own lives during a time period he really needed them. By his pre-teens, his parents divorced, his dad was busy with his film career, and no one seemed to notice he spent excessive time playing video games, failed classes at school, and was being bullied by classmates. Parents who allow their teenage son from age 12-18 or so to play WoW for 14 hours a day are not great parents. Parents who have no idea their son has extreme emotional anguish in response to daily bullying & begin a social outcast are not great parents. Good parents know what's going on with their kids & play an active role to make sure they aren't computer game addicts with inability to interact with peers.

    - This is not really about sex & pent-up aggression due to no outlet for sexual release. This is why arguments for legal prostitution make no sense (& prostitution exists, even if not legal where he was from; his situation wouldn't have made it hard for him to discreetly find & pay for a call girl. There is also such a thing as craigslist personals). The real issue: He had a preoccupation with achieving social status before puberty even. He was angry when this failed, and especially angry with female peers who teased him. The sex & women part, IMO, was a transfer of his general desire for social validation & sense of being rejected/inferior into a very specific area which became the focus upon puberty. "Getting girls" would signify this to him, whereas buying sex via a prostitute would not. His interest in PUA confirms how this was mostly about women being a commodity, one that signaled social value if you could obtain it.

    - I think he was an extremely unhealthy INFJ 4w3, filled with envy & hostility & a sense of defectiveness he turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. He speaks of a happy childhood, happy times now lost, and focuses on what he is lacking in life over what he has. 3 wing is obvious - he's preoccupied with having a successful, attractive image & believes in this image, with anger aimed at those who don't "see" it.

    Inferior Se & weak aux Fe is all over his manifesto. Most of his attempts to "fit in" socially when young revolved around social status & visual image, not real social skills. He tried to create a cool skateboarder image but failed, partly because he could not skate. He viewed popular peers as competition towards his goals. He felt his body to be small & weak, less masculine than his peers. IMO, these & many other details point towards inferior Se - someone who has difficulty impacting reality & creating a tangible presence with others. He turned to an intricate fantasy world in WoW where he felt safe & comfortable because he didn't know how to translate his vision of himself into a reality. He formed an ideology (a "vision") & then later a strategy to carry it through (Ni & Ti thinking). Like most unhealthy INJs, he believed the flaw in the rest of humanity, not himself. He considered himself polite & gentlemanly, & seemed able to convince authorities of this (weak Fe, but enough to pass as stable at times). His complaints are less about people being stupid or unable to think for themselves (which would be T-ish) than people being brutal & insensitive (more F-ish whining). Anyway, I could do a longer examination of his manifesto & how his personality comes through, but suffice to say I do think he was INFJ & not ill in a way that he could not be typed.

    - No shocker he got into PUA (which failed him). Check out this article's commentary on the killer:
    How 'Pick-Up Artist' Philosophy and Its More Misogynist Backlash Shaped Mind of Alleged Killer Elliot Rodger
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #123
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007


    Re: whether prostitution would have helped him, he actually addresses this in his "manifesto" thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by The "Manifesto"
    The second counsellor that was assigned to help me was a girl named Sasha. She was only a year older than me. Sasha was the first young girl I had interacted with in the entire time I stayed in Santa Barbara, and she was only hired to talk to me. How pathetic is that? At first, I didn’t want to have a female counsellor, but when I was introduced to her, I saw that she was quite a pretty looking blonde. I
    couldn’t refuse the opportunity to hang out with a blonde girl, despite the fact that she was a hired friend. It was the only time in my life that I had the experience of spending time with a girl my age, and even though it was all fake, I really enjoyed it. I felt so much better about life after each time we met. But then, I thought about how unfair it was that I could only get a fake little taste of such an experience, while other men get to do such a thing every single day with their girlfriends. Eventually, Sasha had to move out of Santa Barbara, and I decided not to have any more female counsellors. It has the same effect as hiring a prostitute, I imagine. It temporarily feels good for the moment, but afterward it makes one feel like a pathetic loser for having to hire a girl when other men could get the experience for free.
    I agree with OrangeAppled that it was not primarily about the pent-up aggression from lack of sexual release, but rather about a fixation on social status and a belief that "beautiful blonde girls" were the currency of those he perceived as socially elite.

  4. #124
    royal member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    5w6 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Rasofy --

    H'mmm, given the circumstances, maybe it should be called a "rooster and the egg(s)" problem?
    Makes sense.
    I thought I read the guy was fairly well-off financially, his dad was an assistant director in Hollywood, he drove a BMW?
    ...does not compute. I thought BMWs were chick magnets; otoh, you have the joke that "What's the difference between a porcupine and a BMW?" "With a porcupine, the pricks are on the outside."
    Maybe his social circle consisted in people with similar socioeconomic status, so it wouldn't be much of an advantage? Or perhaps he just lacked social skills... Hard to tell, but it should have been something reversible. On a semi related note, "PUA" industry gets a lot of hate (often deserved), but at least they are making some effort to 'fix' guys - and sometimes it works. Better than shaming them for having needs that they can't find a way to fulfill.

  5. #125
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    1w2 so/sp


    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
    that is awesome. are any guns allowed in Oz for private citizens? of course people can use cars or something else to kill a bunch of people but high-powered guns are certainly the weapon of choice here in the US.
    Gun homicides are usually committed with small cheap stuff like .22LR, .25 Auto, .32 Auto, .380 Auto, and 9mm.

    To the best of my knowledge nobody in the US has ever used a .50 Barrett to commit a murder.

    it seems to me that since the colorado movie theater (batman) shooting a few years ago something has changed. i have no idea the actual statistics but we hear of public shootings all the time now in malls, colleges, etc.
    I referenced this a few pages ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Smith
    I am a police officer, a father of an elementary school student and a high school student, and a concerned citizen of the United States of America. I watch the news like everybody else, and I see the senseless events of Clackamas Town Center and Sandy Hook Elementary plastered all over the evening news. I, however, have a different view than most media outlets.

    We have, in recent years, been under an almost constant attack by folks who claim to be our own people. American citizens have been attacking other American citizens on American soil.

    Brown's Chicken, Palatine, Illinois, January 1993

    Alfred R. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, April 1995

    Centennial Olympic Park, Atlanta, Georgia, July 1996

    Heath High School, West Paducah, Kentucky, December 1997

    Westside Middle School, Jonesboro, Arkansas, March 1998

    Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado, April 1999

    Red Lake Indian Reservation High School, Red Lake, Minnesota, March 2005

    Tacoma Mall, Tacoma Washington, November 2005

    Capitol Hill Rave, Seattle, Washington, March 2006

    Amish School-house, Nickel Mines, Pennsylvania, October 2006

    Trolley Square Mall, Salt Lake City, Utah, February 2007

    Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Blacksburg, Virginia, April 2007

    Ward Parkway Shopping Center. Kansas City, Missouri, April 2007

    Westroads Mall, Omaha, Nebraska, December 2007

    Northern Illinois University, DeKalb, Illinois, February 2008

    Fort Hood, Texas, November 2009

    Internal Revenue Service Office, Austin Texas, February 2010

    Hartford Distributors, Manchester, Connecticut, August 2010

    Casa Adobes Safeway, Tucson, Arizona, January 2011

    Chardon High School, Chardon, Ohio, February 2012

    Oikos University, Oakland, California, April 2012

    Century 16 Movie Theater, Aurora, Colorado, July 2012

    Sikh Temple, Oak Creek, Wisconsin, August 2012

    Clackamas Town Center Mall, Portland Oregon, December 2012

    And most recently, Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, December 2012

    This is by no means a complete or comprehensive list. This is just what I could recall or find with a few minutes research. These incidents are tragic no matter how you look at them, but what seems to happen after these incidents is those people with political agendas come crawling out of the woodwork and start preaching. Calls for more gun control, cries for less gun control, suggestions to arm all teachers, those who think ALL people should be armed. People scream for more mental health care. Others accuse the police of not doing enough. Law suits are filed against the venue, as if they caused the evil.

    Mass-murders, rampage killings, whatever you choose to call them, are not new. We have had mass murders and school rampages for most of our history as a country. Think of the University of Texas at Austin, in August of 1966. The infamous clock tower. Recall the Bath School killings in Bath Township, Michigan in May 1927. As far back as 1853, there are recorded instances of disgruntled students bringing weapons to school to exact revenge on their teachers, principals or other students for whatever reason, real or imagined.

    This is certainly not unique to the United States. There are recent and historical records of school massacres, workplace killings and other mass-murders in many countries around the world throughout recorded history. Just yesterday 22 adults and children were stabbed by a crazed "knifeman" outside a school in China. Knife attacks at Chinese schools have been a common occurrence in the past few years, with at least ten attacks resulting in over twenty dead and many more seriously injured just since 2010.

    It is obvious that there are people in this world who wish to do harm to others. So, what is the answer to this obvious problem?

    Continue here...
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  6. #126
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007


    From his writings, it sounds like his family is fairly well-off but not exactly wealthy. He brings up several times how his mother "refused" to marry a wealthy man so he could have the social status of being truly wealthy.

  7. #127
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011


    @SD45T-2 check out this timeline of the deadliest mass shootings from 1984-2014. these are only the deadliest shootings. the frequency of mass shootings (this doesn't even include things like the boston marathon bombings or 9/11) has definitely increased in recent years. 2012 was a banner year.

  8. #128
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    4w5 sp
    INFj Ne


    It surprises me when gun enthusiasts say having stricter gun laws won't prevent anything, how can someone be so stupid? This guy had legal weapons, violence would have been committed nonetheless, but it would have been more difficult and probably lighter. If you don't support gun laws you support murder, technically. This argument is probably nothing new, though.

  9. #129
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013


    I have a few friends who have graduated from there... and two friends currently there for biology and psychology Ph.D programs. I know it's very chaotic there right now...

    My ILI-Te friend: "Another shooting, this time at UCSB. It's not because of the bullying, it's not a misogynist entitlement to women mentality, it's not a privileged thing. All those things aren't good but they are just symptoms of the main problem. There is an extreme lack of mental health advocacy in our society in the U.S. I watched 30 seconds of one of his vlogs and the guy was deeply, deeply, depressed. He should have been saying those things in therapy but apparently didn't get much treatment. If he did, it was too little too late. People are afraid to go to therapy (for many reasons) BUT most of us don't know how to help a troubled person get help. His twisted thinking is rooted in other problems that were obviously never fully addressed in therapy. It doesn't matter what those problems were, it could have been one traumatic incident, could have been a bunch that led to his recent state of mind. Some people are just born with bad wiring, others get messed up through a series of events growing up. The thing is when we run into people like that we all go "Wtf is up with that guy?! He's weird, let's stay away". Or "That guy is a misogynist!" or "That guy is a liberal/conservative" or whatever. Place whatever label that feels right to you and move on. And THAT only makes the problem worse. He committed a horrible crime, I'm not trying to absolve him of any responsibility, but I think we need to learn that when someone that could have been helped slips through the cracks, it's not just that person's fault. It's everyone's fault. Or at the very least, everyone pays for it when someone does slips through the cracks. These cracks aren't small, they're huge and we just pay no attention to them. We could all be looking out for one another more, trying to get someone the help they need before they do something terrible."

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    1w2 sp/so
    EIE Fe


    Quote Originally Posted by Noll View Post
    It surprises me when gun enthusiasts say having stricter gun laws won't prevent anything, how can someone be so stupid? This guy had legal weapons, violence would have been committed nonetheless, but it would have been more difficult and probably lighter. If you don't support gun laws you support murder, technically.
    This unfair, and irrational. Saying not supporting strict gun laws means you support murder is nothing more than emotional pleading BS.

    Making something illegal or strict won't stop it. If gun violence does go down, another form of violence will go up. This has been pointed out earlier and in other threads. There will always be violence, and if one way of preforming it is removed, another will emerge. The issues with guns in the US is not a problem of guns, but a problem of culture. That can't be easily changed (if at all).

    I do support the notion of reexamining gun laws, and if it can be done properly, to recalibrate how things are done. On a personal level I want there to be much stricter laws, but I am doubtful they'd actually do what its intended to do. In reality though, it's not that important. As I said earlier, gun violence seems to be far worse of a problem than it actually is due to media microscope attention. There's much more pressing issues in the world at the moment. I'm quite sick of all of the gun stores in the news (from either side of the aisle) personally.

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