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  1. #11
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I thought this was a well-established fact among literate people. Pointing out that, technically, the US is a real democracy is like saying that a severely depressed person technically has all he needs to enjoy his life. There is potential, but the realities make it near impossible to harness.

  2. #12
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I thought this was a well-established fact among literate people. Pointing out that, technically, the US is a real democracy is like saying that a severely depressed person technically has all he needs to enjoy his life. There is potential, but the realities make it near impossible to harness.
    Do you think Germany is a "real democracy"?
    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
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    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Do you think Germany is a "real democracy"?
    Certainly more than the US.

  4. #14
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Technically nothing has been a real democracy since Ancient Greece
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    We can drop 'real' if it troubles you.

  6. #16
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Certainly more than the US.
    And what do you think makes it so?

    (I'm more interested in what you think makes Germany a "real democracy" than your opinion of the US')

    (Commentary on the latter is fine [just less central to my interest] as well, tho)
    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

  7. #17
    simple simon ass MF asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Technically nothing has been a real democracy since Ancient Greece
    I'm not sure there has ever been a true/real democracy.

    Also, Ancient Athens, to be more specific. A "true democracy" where only adult male property owners were allowed to participate in government, if I remember correctly. The women and members of the servile class in that society would probably take issue with your statement.
    "our preferences do not determine what's true." -Sagan

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  8. #18
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I'm not sure there has ever been a true/real democracy.

    Also, Ancient Athens, to be more specific. A "true democracy" where only adult male property owners were allowed to participate in government, if I remember correctly. The women and members of the servile class in that society would probably take issue with your statement.
    Yes, well democracy works a lot better when that pesky underclass stays out of the way... wanting things *shudder*

    /sarcasm
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  9. #19
    simple simon ass MF asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Yes, well democracy works a lot better when that pesky underclass stays out of the way
    haha, kinda. there's truth in that. Throughout history, many movements to start democracies have been started by elitists from the upper class. Case in point: The American Revolution.

    btw, Sorry, didn't mean to seem condescending or argumentative earlier.
    "our preferences do not determine what's true." -Sagan

    "I know you just want to know more, the problem is that people think their box of answers is perfect for everyone else." -Forever

    "The effect of life in society is to complicate and confuse our existence, making us forget who we really are by causing us to become obsessed with what we are not." -Chuang Tzu

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  10. #20
    Driving to Wewelsburg Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    There is nothing inherently good about majority-rule democracy.

    In fact, in the absence of an institutional restraint on the power of the majority to implement it's will, it can be the single most horrific form of government imaginable.

    In the United States, the restraint on the power of the democracy was supposed to be the notion of individual rights.

    Unfortunately, most people don't even understand what the word "rights" means... and the premise is nearly universally ignored.
    Have you read the book Democracy the god that failed by Hans Hermann Hoppe? Your views in the few posts Ive read of yours remind me of the authors'.

    That said, I dont think Democracy is an ideal form of government either. Its an illusion, you cast your vote but theoritically this has little ripple on anything. Voting is a way of giving the underprivlidged class some power. I guess some is better than one, but the point is Im suprised the thoughts in the OP's article are so surpising: voting never gave anyone much power, having money gives you power. On this earth, making political choices is about having the most resources, it always has been, always will be. So why is there a contradiction, between Oligarchy and Democracy at all? You can cast your vote but who people vote for will be influenced by campaigning(propaganda) which is funded by large corporations. All in all, its always been this way, I think now we're more aware of it is all.

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