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  1. #1
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Dec 2008

    Default Wth? How come I'm not the Advocate's person of the year? srsly

    Alternatively titled: How come the pope's comments get him hailed as a liberal savior of the faith when every other Christian who says the EXACT same thing gets called a homophobe?

    For reals

    Full context of that quote:

    “I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a “gay lobby” within the Vatican.

    “They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. “The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society.”

    Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind—including political ones—were bad.

    “The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem,” he said.

    Compare this from Francis:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Advocate
    He continued, “We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.”
    To this from Benedict:

    We should not allow our faith to be drained by too many discussions of multiple, minor details, but rather, should always keep our eyes in the first place on the greatness of Christianity. I remember, when I used go to Germany in the 1980s and ’90s, that I was asked to give interviews and I always knew the questions in advance. They concerned the ordination of women, contraception, abortion and other such constantly recurring problems. If we let ourselves be drawn into these discussions, the Church is then identified with certain commandments or prohibitions; we give the impression that we are moralists with a few somewhat antiquated convictions, and not even a hint of the true greatness of the faith appears. I therefore consider it essential always to highlight the greatness of our faith – a commitment from which we must not allow such situations to divert us.
    "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
    Norm MacDonald

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Aug 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    How come the pope's comments get him hailed as a liberal savior of the faith when every other Christian who says the EXACT same thing gets called a homophobe?
    Because he is more important and has better marketing people.

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
    594 sx/sp
    LII Ne


    Yes, he's quite the typical Pope:

    Pope Francis on Monday removed two American-born cardinals — including former La Crosse Bishop Raymond Burke — from the Vatican's Congregation for Bishops, meaning the ultraconservative prelate will lose his influential role in the appointment of bishops in the United States.

    Burke and retired Philadelphia Cardinal Justin Rigali were among more than a dozen members of the Vatican old guard who were removed from the 18-member congregation on Monday.

    Among those appointed was Washington, D.C., Cardinal Donald Wuerl. While conservative, Wuerl is seen as a bridge-builder and less dogmatic than Burke, who has promoted the denial of communion to pro-abortion rights Catholic politicians and in recent interviews appeared to question the new pope's plans to reshape the Vatican bureaucracy known as the curia.

    Monday's appointments are seen as the key to securing Francis' legacy.

    "He is saying that you don't need to be a conservative to become a bishop," said Alberto Melloni, the director of the John XXIII Foundation for Religious Studies in Bologna, Italy, a liberal Catholic research institute. "He wants good bishops, regardless of how conservative or liberal they are..."

    ...Francis' own top collaborators, namely a "kitchen cabinet" of eight cardinals he tapped to help him change the Vatican's Byzantine and often scandal-ridden ways, have said that the old curial system "is over," as one put it, and will be replaced by "something different".

    In his EWTN interview, Burke reiterated his hard-line view on Communion, and he took pains to note that Francis' comments in his recent exhortation on the church, called "Evangelii Gaudium," were meant as "suggestions" and not as authoritative papal teaching.

    Burke also echoed conservative concerns over the pontiff's effort to strike a "new balance" so that church leaders do not "obsess" over a few teachings like abortion and gay marriage. Instead, Francis wants them to speak more about the need to care for the poor and marginalized.

    "One gets the impression, or it's interpreted this way in the media, that he thinks we're talking too much about abortion, too much about the integrity of marriage as between one man and one woman," Burke said. "But we can never talk enough about that!"
    ...Well, it sounds like Burke won't be talking as much about it on the Congregation for Bishops anymore.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Aug 2010


    The good thing is that what he really thinks doesn't matter as long as people believe he is a liberal. The news are more powerful than the real thing.

  5. #5
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
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    Maybe it is pure marketing, but Francis seems to put people first and compassion first, and Church and power second. It feels like change. I liked John Paul all right but Francis seems more in tune with the present. Again, maybe marketing, but he seems like a breath of fresh air. Getting away from power struggles, secrecy, rigidity of doctrine, condemnation, and so on. He's making Catholicism likeable again, and it hasn't been that likeable even to a lot of Catholics in a long time. Makes a lapsed Catholic like me perk up my ears.

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