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  1. #71
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
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    For comparison sake, here's the google autocomplete for "gays should" (in incognito mode, to prevent personal tuning for my profile):
    • Gays should not adopt
    • Gays should not be allowed to adopt
    • Gays should not be allowed to marry
    • Gays should not have equal rights

    And, "gays must":
    • Gays must die
    • Gays must be put to death
    • Gays must be killed
    • Gays must be put to death manny pacquiao

    I tried "lesbians should" and "lesbians must", but for whatever reason, google didn't suggest autocompletions for those (similarly for transsexuals should and must).

    I do find the differences with the English vs French "women should" and "men should" to be interesting (even if I disagree that men should shave more often)... does seem like the English speakers are somewhat retrograde, there.

  2. #72
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Jul 2009
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    in finnish i get for women "how should women dress in the summer" and for men "men should put boundaries to women" and "what should men know about women"
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung


  3. #73
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Questions to Salomé:

    1/ Do you think that women's rights are really such a big issue in Scotland or in the UK? I mean, in 2013.
    I most certainly do.

    2/ Why do you seem so obsessed with feminism recently? Do you really think that your campaign here is effective?
    A) I'm not obsessed. I'm distressed that it's 2013 and we're still dealing with this shit. And that misogyny is worsening, particularly online. I think we've had an apathetic generation of women who let things slip, not realising that this wasn't a battle that every generation would need to wage anew and a new generation who are wising up to that fact. I support the handful of women who actually give a shit about my welfare and it's my duty to demonstrate that support instead of sitting back in silence, hoping things will just work themselves out on their own. If anything, I disparage myself for not doing enough. I'd love nothing more than for the need for feminism to go away, and for it to become a footnote in history, but I can't see that happening in my lifetime. Not the way things are trending. We'll probably have colonised other worlds before that ever happens.

    B) Yes, I've seen some positive changes already. I'm helping to raise awareness and getting people to talk about the issue in the open. It's not "my" campaign though. Lots of other women are involved. And a few men.

    3/ Do you think that our contemporary society is only structured by raw, physical power? Or rather, to put it on Marxist terms : do you think that people who hold this power are always wrong, and people who lack it always right? Do you think it is an automatic rule?

    What I mean is that the context matters. The same campaign has not the same value nor the same meaning whether it is held in Western Europe, in Russia, in Africa or within Muslim countries.
    Have you worked for a feminist NGO in Africa, for instance?

    The campaign is universal, as is the issue. It's interesting to note how much different countries vary, and damning to note how much they do not.

  4. #74
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Jun 2010
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    My country is now governed by an 80% majority coalition which means that the opposition will only make up 20% of parliamentary seats. The limit for openening an investigative committee and many other important functions is 25% which means that this new opposition is basically powerless. They will also only have 12 minutes of every hour of debating time.

    Would you tell the people who are worried by this that they should shut the fuck up and be glad they don't live in North Korea?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  5. #75
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Mar 2008



    I suppose you view yourself as a kind of heroine, as a new Simone de Beauvoir.
    While I totally understand that the world wide web acts now like a sounding board for almost every possible extremist movement (especially religious sects, far left and far right), to tell the truth, the situation of women's right in Western Europe can not be compared, even for a second, to what they endure anywhere else.
    It's far from perfection, of course, and in some European countries there are still obvious differences in salaries between men and women. But as many prominent feminist figures pointed (in France, Elizabeth Badinter and Monique Wittig), there is a growing absurdity in some so-called feminist fights in our overprivileged countries, especially when too many feminists still delve in "a perpetual posture of victimhood", even in Sweden.
    Badinter even said that contemporary feminism in Europe "has become essentialist, and focus too much on the hatred of men and especially men's sexuality".

    Note that I quote women known for their progressive political stances. Nonetheless, Badinter has immediately been called a "traitor" and many radical lesbian groups publicly hoped that "she would get raped, so that it could teach her a lesson or two about men".

    My mother also was a fierce historical feminist during the 70'es, she fought to obtain the right to do what she wanted with her body. She risked imprisonment several times because of her opinions... My favorite aunt also is a kind of historical figure amongst lesbians. Thanks to her, I have grown up surrounded by lesbian militants. But curiously, both my mother and my aunt would rather side with Badinter nowadays.



    What I mean is that if you ask me if feminism is still important in 2013, I'd say yes, and that it remains the greatest challenge for mankind so far. But then, I think to what I see in Africa and Muslim countries, countries where I have lived and worked. What women endure there is absolutely terrifying. I have sometimes helped many local NGO dedicated to women's education, or victims of collective rapes (In some African countries, almost a fourth of women confessed they had been the victim of a rape). Male chauvinism is so disgusting in those countries that sometimes, I confess that I can develop strong misandrist feelings.

    But when I return to Europe... no frankly... Feminism is a joke most of the time (but not all the time, of course). The oppression of women here is a joke compared to what I've witnessed... let's say... In Russia for instance (my current partner is a Femen, and she is afraid of being arrested everytime she gets back to her home country). There are LOTS of feminist fights and challenges to take of course... but NOT ANYMORE in Sweden, Germany, the UK or France.

    Of course, I have noticed during the past decade that a reactionary form of male chauvinist speeches is growing amongst our far right or our religious militants. And those speeches are more and more common, and sometimes, it's true that I can trace their influence even here, on Typo-c. But nonetheless, I think it's a epiphenomenon, and that reactionary forces are, by definition, fighting against the course of history. In Western Europe, male chauvinists are dinosaurs, and ridiculing them is an activity almost free of risk.
    It's the same here on Typo-c: ridiculing Zarathustra or various Tea Party lobbyists is a somewhat consensual activity.
    And campaigning for feminism here has almost no impact IRL. I suppose you want to make a difference, right?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  6. #76
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Aug 2010


    Interesting game.

    1: The German title of the Bond movie The World Is Not Enough.
    2: The German translation of Galadriel's opening line "The world is changed" from The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring.
    3: "The world is round rtl2". RTL2 is a TV station.
    4: "The world is elephantastic".

    These results, however, do not seem to be representative of anything, except, perhaps, of Germans watching a lot of television and movies.

  7. #77
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Friedrich Nietzsche - "A man who wills commands something within himself that renders obedience, or that he believes renders obedience."
    There is a huge gap between actually rendering obedience, and simply believing that it should be rendered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Of course, I have noticed during the past decade that a reactionary form of male chauvinist speeches is growing amongst our far right or our religious militants. And those speeches are more and more common, and sometimes, it's true that I can trace their influence even here, on Typo-c. But nonetheless, I think it's a epiphenomenon, and that reactionary forces are, by definition, fighting against the course of history. In Western Europe, male chauvinists are dinosaurs, and ridiculing them is an activity almost free of risk.
    It's the same here on Typo-c: ridiculing Zarathustra or various Tea Party lobbyists is a somewhat consensual activity.
    And campaigning for feminism here has almost no impact IRL. I suppose you want to make a difference, right?
    I have raised this last question several times myself. That is the standard I use for myself, IRL at least.

    Your post brings much needed perspective to the topic. I have, for example, been reading more and more lately about the plight of women in Egypt who are frequently the target of group sexual assault, with the police doing little to nothing to stop/punish the culprits. It has become a very dangerous place for women since the recent political turmoil started.

    That being said, I wouldn't give Western Europe a free pass. Italy especially remains a place where sexist tendencies remain strong, including strong inequities in the workplace and the home, and sexual objectification of women in media, politics, and elsewhere. The high profile promiscuity of former prime minister Berlusconi is just a particularly egregious example. See, for instance:

    Sexism Italian Style

    The thing is that many Italians accept and nurture the gender discrimination that has erupted during the Berlusconi governments, and the former PM’s popularity and public support very much relies on his self-proclaimed virility. As if you are not a “real man,” if you do not chase after young, beautiful women. On the contrary, this is presented as natural and normal behavior, as opposed to those that prefer their own sex. Clearly, the impact of the Catholic Church plays a crucial role here, and the documentary Suddenly Last Winter (2007), offers a good picture of the sad situation homosexuals in Italy often find themselves in. On the other hand, Berlusconi’s adultery and preference for under aged girls is not looked upon with a good eye by the Church. Yet, many Italian men do not judge Berlusconi for his immoral (and illegal) dealings with the women around him, but actually admire and probably envy him for his sexual adventures.

    A second problem is the way women position themselves in this highly sexist society. Sadly, the majority tries to live up to the image Berlusconi and the media have created of women: young, slim and stupid. But it’s a tough battle as there are strong expectations of women, not only with regards to their physical appearance but also to their place in society (i.e. subdued to men), and it is hard to step out of this rigid scheme and develop an identity of one’s own without being criticized by both sexes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Not at all - I have never tried to bait you. Nor have I ever had fun talking to you. I'm trying to understand you. Your refusal to answer doesn't really help with that. If it's just your intention to be a perpetual fly in the ointment where my threads are concerned (with your petty hair-splitting derails) I'll put you on ignore as I do others of that variety. If on the other hand we are just having a serious communication problem, for whatever reason, I'd like to get to the bottom of it.
    My comment was general, and not specifically about our interactions. Interesting that you chose to personalize it. If you wish to understand my intentions, feel free to ask. If you are going to label anyone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you "a perpetual fly in the ointment", though, I may decide it is not worth my time to answer.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #78


    "women need to:"
    shut up
    realize work isn't school
    grow up

    "women ought to:"
    be as free as free as we are (???)
    be silent
    have representatives
    be free

    "women shouldn't:"
    be on combat
    be cops

    "women can't"
    have it all
    wear pants in Tuscon (haha, in reference to a law established during the wild west where I'm from)
    live with them

    "women cannot:"
    be pastors
    have it all
    teach men

    "women will:"
    rule the world
    rule tumblr
    save the world
    always cheat

    "girls shouldn't"
    go to college
    have abs
    play video games

    "girls should:"
    know about guys
    not be educated
    be healers
    not play football

    "girls can't:"
    love girls
    take complements
    get pregnant in the summertime (???)

  9. #79
    On The blessblessblessblesster
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    Aug 2012
    5w6 sx


    I guess we need to go on a crusade too.

    I get that some parts of the world are still very discriminatory, and that's not right (as are many things in less developed parts of the world). Unless you're advocating to improve things in absolute human rights shitholes like China, North Korea, Libya, Saudi Arabia etc., perhaps stop playing victim because you have it pretty damn good.

  10. #80


    My results were pretty much the same as @fia which I think means our locales are very close to each other.

    But I found this little video because of it, and it made me chuckle a bit:

    I think the campaign is meant to highlight the prevalence of gender stereotypes and the dominant cultural images of women that challenge society.

    I don't think the western countries have completely overcome gender equality issues. There is still a wage gap. There are still glass ceilings for everyone who isn't a white man of a particular pedigree (which happen to also be a glass floor for white men of a particular pedigree).

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

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