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  1. #61
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    Disrespecting his fans, who're meant to be his bread and butter livelihood, source of earnings, means he's a perfect example of the overclass.

    I'd totally and utterly love it if his fans turned wholesale against him, his record label dropped him and he was left destitute as a consequence of this, although that's not likely. Perhaps his douchebag behaviour will allow them to relaunch him as a "ghetto star" Eminem stylee.

    And people will buy it. Vindicate and validate the worst sort of behaviour. Its an indictment of society and aswell as him accordingly, if democracy means that the public get the politicians they deserve, consumerism means that the public get the celebrities they deserve.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #62
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Disrespecting his fans, who're meant to be his bread and butter livelihood, source of earnings, means he's a perfect example of the overclass.

    I'd totally and utterly love it if his fans turned wholesale against him, his record label dropped him and he was left destitute as a consequence of this, although that's not likely. Perhaps his douchebag behaviour will allow them to relaunch him as a "ghetto star" Eminem stylee.

    And people will buy it. Vindicate and validate the worst sort of behaviour. Its an indictment of society and aswell as him accordingly, if democracy means that the public get the politicians they deserve, consumerism means that the public get the celebrities they deserve.
    I completely agree.

    Even though I'm not crazy about Eminem, at least he is authentic. He actually was trailer park trash, got beat up by a gang, lived on the streets. His toughness is what he developed to survive. Playing ghetto dress up is annoying beyond belief.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I completely agree.

    Even though I'm not crazy about Eminem, at least he is authentic. He actually was trailer park trash, got beat up by a gang, lived on the streets. His toughness is what he developed to survive. Playing ghetto dress up is annoying beyond belief.
    I'm not sure about Eminem, I've read enough about him to know that he is, at least, really conflicted about his origins and image, one point talking up the badness and gangsterness, the next trying to appear apologetic about it, the U turns in the albums are one example of that.

    Although they'd have reason to trash talk him for media dollars he has had aids and bodyguards who've talked about how inauthentic he is, Stan, the tune about the murderous stalking fan is supposedly based upon a tune about a twelve year old fan.

    He was instrumental in helping Dido get launched, I dont think he'd even know Dido if he was truthfully the guy from eight mile. Although I dont mind it, I dont like his music, definitely not anymore and his earlier tunes which I listened to I thought were comic relief. A lot of artists manipulate their public image, I've heard some truly mad stuff about Fifty Cent in the image vs. reality stakes, who apparently came onto the music scene as a result of Eminem's wish to become a producer rather than artist and bow out of the spot light himself.

    What does it for me is the fact that he appeared in posters for his latest album appearing like a young black man! I dont even think there was any sideswipes or satire intended in it, it was about appealing to that demographic. At least Nelly Fertado was sincere when she complained in her music about how her skin tone had been altered in her PR material.

    Although I would agree in the Beiber example its even worse because everyone, including him, should know his origin story that he is straight up pop engineered. Maybe he will be a disaster and turn up as stone dead from substances or something later in life and I dont wish that on him or his family. All the celebrity crashes make me feel bad, you see what God thinks of money and worldly success when you see who he gives it to.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  4. #64
    Driving to Wewelsburg Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm not sure about Eminem, I've read enough about him to know that he is, at least, really conflicted about his origins and image, one point talking up the badness and gangsterness, the next trying to appear apologetic about it, the U turns in the albums are one example of that.

    Although they'd have reason to trash talk him for media dollars he has had aids and bodyguards who've talked about how inauthentic he is, Stan, the tune about the murderous stalking fan is supposedly based upon a tune about a twelve year old fan.

    He was instrumental in helping Dido get launched, I dont think he'd even know Dido if he was truthfully the guy from eight mile. Although I dont mind it, I dont like his music, definitely not anymore and his earlier tunes which I listened to I thought were comic relief. A lot of artists manipulate their public image, I've heard some truly mad stuff about Fifty Cent in the image vs. reality stakes, who apparently came onto the music scene as a result of Eminem's wish to become a producer rather than artist and bow out of the spot light himself.

    What does it for me is the fact that he appeared in posters for his latest album appearing like a young black man! I dont even think there was any sideswipes or satire intended in it, it was about appealing to that demographic. At least Nelly Fertado was sincere when she complained in her music about how her skin tone had been altered in her PR material.

    Although I would agree in the Beiber example its even worse because everyone, including him, should know his origin story that he is straight up pop engineered. Maybe he will be a disaster and turn up as stone dead from substances or something later in life and I dont wish that on him or his family. All the celebrity crashes make me feel bad, you see what God thinks of money and worldly success when you see who he gives it to.
    Im not really into Eminem's music, but I at least respect him for being a true artist. The only thing you can reproach him of is relying on Dre a bit too much. He grew up in mostly black neighbourhoods and doesnt claim to be "gangster", so yeah its only normal for him to be conflicted about his origins and image I think, since in the type of neighbourood he comes from identity is only attained by joining a gang. As its been said he had it rough growing up and is certainly tougher and more real than this thread's namesake is.
    And now there came out of this building a form - human - was it human? ... It reminded me of symbolical images of Genius or Demon that are seen on Etruscan vases or limned on the walls of Eastern sepulchres - images that borrow the outlines of man, and are yet of another race.

    -Edward Bulwer, Lord Lytton, The Coming Race

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Perhaps his douchebag behaviour will allow them to relaunch him as a "ghetto star" Eminem stylee.
    Maybe I'm just being a little too cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if everything about Justin Bieber's public image--the recent lewd behaviour, the stupid dress, etc.--has been carefully crafted by his 'handlers' and the record label's marketing team to keep his name in the press and in the public consciousness. Teen pop stars have a limited shelf life.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Im not really into Eminem's music, but I at least respect him for being a true artist. The only thing you can reproach him of is relying on Dre a bit too much. He grew up in mostly black neighbourhoods and doesnt claim to be "gangster", so yeah its only normal for him to be conflicted about his origins and image I think, since in the type of neighbourood he comes from identity is only attained by joining a gang. As its been said he had it rough growing up and is certainly tougher and more real than this thread's namesake is.
    I'm tempted to say "real" how, there's nothing less real about living one way than another, if you're not living in destitution doesnt mean that you're some how living an unreal life.

    I'm pretty sure that perhaps Eminem is considered differently in the US to the UK, there's been ska and white rap artists here before although the whole race and class issue goes over a lot differently, with a popular black comedy show satirising the artist behind the tune "Informer" as an "Imposter".

    Hey may not be "gangster" but his music does definitely reflect the so called "negativity" which has been associated with some of the "gangster" and rap/hip hop in decline and commercialisation phase of its life.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Disrespecting his fans, who're meant to be his bread and butter livelihood, source of earnings, means he's a perfect example of the overclass.

    I'd totally and utterly love it if his fans turned wholesale against him, his record label dropped him and he was left destitute as a consequence of this, although that's not likely.
    I wish. His fans tweet him like they're married to him.

    Has he even publicly addressed it? I was looking forward to what the lil' shit has to say
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  8. #68
    Driving to Wewelsburg Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm tempted to say "real" how, there's nothing less real about living one way than another, if you're not living in destitution doesnt mean that you're some how living an unreal life.

    I'm pretty sure that perhaps Eminem is considered differently in the US to the UK, there's been ska and white rap artists here before although the whole race and class issue goes over a lot differently, with a popular black comedy show satirising the artist behind the tune "Informer" as an "Imposter".

    Hey may not be "gangster" but his music does definitely reflect the so called "negativity" which has been associated with some of the "gangster" and rap/hip hop in decline and commercialisation phase of its life.
    From what Ive heard rap music isnt well tolerated in the UK, at least not by the officials. I dunno whats true though, Ive never heard the song "Informer" myself nor do I know who sings it.

    Besides, I never said Eminem was ideal; he is very commercial and is indeed associated with the commercialization/decline of rap/hip-hop music, on some level, probably because he made it big at a time when it was becoming commercial, not sure if you could consider him responsible for the decline of hip-hop though, directly or even indirectly.

    As far as how real "real" he is, what I meant was that his lyrics reflect a backround growing up in rough circumstances, Bieber to my knowledge has no such background, yet acts all tough like some kind of badass. Its typical though; I live in one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods of Brussels and all the teenage guys look a bit like him, trying to act all smart, all I feel like saying to them is "go back to your sandbox, you're not cool." lol.
    And now there came out of this building a form - human - was it human? ... It reminded me of symbolical images of Genius or Demon that are seen on Etruscan vases or limned on the walls of Eastern sepulchres - images that borrow the outlines of man, and are yet of another race.

    -Edward Bulwer, Lord Lytton, The Coming Race

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I wish. His fans tweet him like they're married to him.

    Has he even publicly addressed it? I was looking forward to what the lil' shit has to say
    Which is a shame because its some kind of abuse relationship marriage in that case.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    From what Ive heard rap music isnt well tolerated in the UK, at least not by the officials. I dunno whats true though, Ive never heard the song "Informer" myself nor do I know who sings it.

    Besides, I never said Eminem was ideal; he is very commercial and is indeed associated with the commercialization/decline of rap/hip-hop music, on some level, probably because he made it big at a time when it was becoming commercial, not sure if you could consider him responsible for the decline of hip-hop though, directly or even indirectly.

    As far as how real "real" he is, what I meant was that his lyrics reflect a backround growing up in rough circumstances, Bieber to my knowledge has no such background, yet acts all tough like some kind of badass. Its typical though; I live in one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods of Brussels and all the teenage guys look a bit like him, trying to act all smart, all I feel like saying to them is "go back to your sandbox, you're not cool." lol.
    He is a good representative of the "ugly rich kids", ugly in their behaviour, in terms of keeping it real would Brittany be considered an example because she made it big despite being, pretty much, trailer trash also? Its much the same thing to me.

    I kind of think that the final chapter in genuine hip hop was a long long time ago and that NWA was one of the final chapters in decent "angry rap" too, perhaps Ice Cube, Ice T, Snoop Dog etc. are examples of some continuity but they all made transitions to TV and other forms of media and for the most part have embarked upon decent criticism of the artists, if they can be called that, who've followed in their stead.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

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