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  1. #21


    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I thought it was based on those apes being able to recognize themselves as individuals or something like that. Although how the researchers figured that out is unclear to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Since they have similar brains than we do, probably. Then again brains is not consciousness, so Im not quiet sure either. Im guessing the apes can perform excercises that show they have a sense of individuality?

    (i should be clear that my above acknowledgement of ape self awareness does not represent any ideological implications on my part in regard to the use of monkeys for entertainment, experimentation or food)

  2. #22
    likes this gromit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010


    @Mane, that is interesting stuff!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  3. #23
    Infinite Bubble


    They can do whatever they want, it doesn't really matter. If dolphins are going to be considered people from now on, fine.

    Still, I don't see why they should be given more rights and respect merely because they're more similar to us in some respects than other animals.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012


    i suppose they are, but hey, i fail to consider humans as persons.. =|
    including myself.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  5. #25
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    6w7 so/sx
    EII Ne


    Regardless of the question... I think it is fairly clear that we ought to treat other species and the planet as a whole with more respect than we are.

  6. #26
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009


    I don't have any problem attributing sentience and intelligence to non-humans. there is no good reason not too, given what we have learned about dolphins, apes, monkeys, ravens, crows, parrots, elephants, dogs, and several others.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i think we should probably focus on resolving the language issue, and just... ask them.

    i'm not sure what happens if they say yes... would that mean they have to be paid a minimum wage in tuna?
    a deal is a deal.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  8. #28
    defying your expectations SoraMayhem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    4w5 so/sx


    The Cambridge Declaration On Consciouness

    “The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.”
    Animals *are* persons and should not be exploited for our entertainment.
    4w5-1w2-5w4 -- RLUAI -- Chaotic Good/Neutral

    Johari -- Nohari

    Ask me about my crippling social dysfunction!

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    If porpoises are conscious, we would expect to see inter-subjective porpoises, but we don't.

    We are the only inter-subjective animal on the planet, and all we can do is to project consciousness and inter-subjectivity onto other animals.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I expect you'll respect the life of the next virus that gets a hold of you and not take medication?

    This is stupid.

    All humans are persons.

    All persons are humans.


    Animals, places, and other living things can be protected on other grounds.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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