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  1. #1
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    Default We maxed out our credit cards: The Making of a Modern Myth?

    Does anyone else get annoyed with the continued talk of "we", in the sense of a collective and equal, as in uniform, responsibility, "maxed out our credit" as an explanation for the present financial crisis and political restructuring which has come in its stead?

    I didnt max out anything, I live extremely frugally and within my means, but I've suffered as a consequence of others living an extremely profligate lifestyle whose lifestyle has been largely uneffected by the crisis (they may even have benefited) and my future is not likely to be an improvement on the present and any children that I'd have sure can not look forward to having a better future than mine.

    The whole thing, by the day, is looking more and more like deliberate acts of sabotage and mischief on the part of finance in order to compell global restructuring of economies, reducing the amount of money in circulation, increasing the democratic deficit and further empowering them relative to any political force which might try and take them on. It doesnt matter that the Tea Party doesnt control public office or have an electoral mandate because they control the world's financial institutions and they control the public offices anyway.

    There isnt any critical or alternative narrative about the crisis, it should've been a historic opportunity, like at the end of the second world war, to restructure the world economies and defeat finance. Instead its been this shit sandwich in which everyone is "blaming" themselves like a bunch of neurotics. The rich guys arent feeling an ounce of regret about their hand in all this.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  2. #2
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Yes. The abuse of 'we' en masse is a big lie. Using 'we' like that has the same credibility as:
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
    'Men are meant to be with women. The rest is perversion and mental illness.'

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Does anyone else get annoyed with the continued talk of "we", in the sense of a collective and equal, as in uniform, responsibility, "maxed out our credit" as an explanation for the present financial crisis and political restructuring which has come in its stead?

    I didnt max out anything, I live extremely frugally and within my means, but I've suffered as a consequence of others living an extremely profligate lifestyle whose lifestyle has been largely uneffected by the crisis (they may even have benefited) and my future is not likely to be an improvement on the present and any children that I'd have sure can not look forward to having a better future than mine.

    The whole thing, by the day, is looking more and more like deliberate acts of sabotage and mischief on the part of finance in order to compell global restructuring of economies, reducing the amount of money in circulation, increasing the democratic deficit and further empowering them relative to any political force which might try and take them on. It doesnt matter that the Tea Party doesnt control public office or have an electoral mandate because they control the world's financial institutions and they control the public offices anyway.

    There isnt any critical or alternative narrative about the crisis, it should've been a historic opportunity, like at the end of the second world war, to restructure the world economies and defeat finance. Instead its been this shit sandwich in which everyone is "blaming" themselves like a bunch of neurotics. The rich guys arent feeling an ounce of regret about their hand in all this.
    I share the same frustrations, I myself live within my means and am not in financial debt in any shape or form but am being equally burdened with the consequences of austerity despite having no hand in its making. I'm on the fence about the whole idea of sabotage though. More than likely it was just a large number of fools with the opportunity to make themselves rich just like it was a large amount of fools who had the opportunity to "buy now, pay later."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    I share the same frustrations, I myself live within my means and am not in financial debt in any shape or form but am being equally burdened with the consequences of austerity despite having no hand in its making. I'm on the fence about the whole idea of sabotage though. More than likely it was just a large number of fools with the opportunity to make themselves rich just like it was a large amount of fools who had the opportunity to "buy now, pay later."
    I dont think they were fools, not at the commanding heights of finance, these are the people who've been black mailing nation states for a very, very long time and I believe this whole present crisis and recession and response has been their trying out the same tactics on the "big boys", on the first world the way they've been used to dealing with "bannana republics" and the third world.

    It had its harbingers, like the Enron scandal and the likes, they were testing or at least spectating at the "consequences" the state was going to hand down if it was going to hand down any, that was the time for the democratically elected and accountable government to send a message if they wanted to but they failed to.

    I could accept the complicity of the state and maybe that there was as much of a moronic as abjectly corrupt impetus about it but the fact that so many people who've done nothing wrong who're being so, so, so masochistic about it, suggesting yeah "we're" all to blame, that really bothers me, and to be frank those who were most responsible for this are among the least accountable and the least bothered by it all. They feel no regrets about it and they've not been made to feel any regrets about it by the response of the authorities.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  5. #5
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I don't even have a credit card (I use a Mastercard branded debit though). So yeah, no "we" going on here.

  6. #6
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    I'm sure a whole lot of me's have been grouped into a whole lot of we's with results far less preferable than difficulty obtaining a loan and increased gas prices.


    I also don't think it is any sole person's fault for what we get ourselves in to financially, hence all the apprehension in restructure. At least in war there is a victor you can proclaim faultless.

  7. #7
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't even have a credit card (I use a Mastercard branded debit though). So yeah, no "we" going on here.
    same here (only mine's visa)

    I've never trusted money that I haven't already earned... just seems like a bad idea, like buying stocks on margin (which, in a way, is bizzarely similar to the looser standards of home buying and mortgage lending before the most recent financial crash)... gee... would history repeat itself?

    "we" is a good word for those who enjoy sharing the blame though, and blame seems more tolerable when it's shared
    “The phrase 'Someone ought to do something' was not, by itself, a helpful one. People who used it never added the rider 'and that someone is me'.” - Terry Pratchett

  8. #8
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Does anyone else get annoyed with the continued talk of "we", in the sense of a collective and equal, as in uniform, responsibility, "maxed out our credit" as an explanation for the present financial crisis and political restructuring which has come in its stead?

    I didnt max out anything, I live extremely frugally and within my means, but I've suffered as a consequence of others living an extremely profligate lifestyle whose lifestyle has been largely uneffected by the crisis (they may even have benefited) and my future is not likely to be an improvement on the present and any children that I'd have sure can not look forward to having a better future than mine.

    The whole thing, by the day, is looking more and more like deliberate acts of sabotage and mischief on the part of finance in order to compell global restructuring of economies, reducing the amount of money in circulation, increasing the democratic deficit and further empowering them relative to any political force which might try and take them on. It doesnt matter that the Tea Party doesnt control public office or have an electoral mandate because they control the world's financial institutions and they control the public offices anyway.

    There isnt any critical or alternative narrative about the crisis, it should've been a historic opportunity, like at the end of the second world war, to restructure the world economies and defeat finance. Instead its been this shit sandwich in which everyone is "blaming" themselves like a bunch of neurotics. The rich guys arent feeling an ounce of regret about their hand in all this.
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  9. #9
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    So, if the team loses the game and the coach explains, "we made some mistakes and didn't play our best", should the one or two players whose play was irreproachable complain at the generalization? How about the army unit that fails to take an objective due to hesitation and inexperience? Should those who acted with skill and confidence take exception? Whether the "we" is a team, or a platoon, or a nation, we are only as strong as our weakest links.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #10
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    good players get All-Star competitions. exceptional army men are awarded badges & promotions. and nations can crumble while successful companies stand. we aren't always bad. generalizations can be useful. although, in the example of the original post we sucks. and this is why we can't have good things.

    Oh, its
    You
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