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  1. #1
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Default What Really Happened In Benghazi?

    Since the original thread on the murder of Ambassador Stevens, when we still believed the claim that the attack in Benghazi was a spontaneous demonstration in response to a stupid video, we've learned a lot more information about what really happened. I haven't spent too much time researching the topic, and, it should be noted, the mainstream media's coverage of the issue has been suspiciously light, but, as more information trickles out, I figure this thread could serve as a place to post information about what happened leading up to, during, and after the incident, and to try and piece together what really happened. I have a feeling that, although this story hasn't been getting much media coverage, it's going to stick around for a long while (there will definitely be some major books about it, and, as the years roll on, some in the administration, military, state department, CIA, etc will start revealing some crucial details that, for a while now, will remain unknown), especially if Obama gets reelected.
    Last edited by Zarathustra; 11-04-2012 at 12:42 PM.
    The Justice Fighter

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    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  2. #2
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Default

    Well, since nobody seems to be biting...

    Here's a pretty good report I saw on the issue...

    I usually don't like to use Fox News as a source, but this is actually pretty good.



    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  3. #3
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    @DiscoBiscuit

    They weren't really much of takers on this one, either.

    Apparently the blackout of coverage on this topic extends beyond just the MSM, all the way to Typology Central liberals.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  4. #4
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Default

    It's funny how that works out.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

    8w9 sx/so

  5. #5
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Here's my view on it. The Obama administration screwed up. But here's where you and I probably differ. No presidency is perfect and I expect the Obama administration to make the necessary changes to make this less likely to happen again in the future. Now you might say that it's then unfair for me to criticize Bush, but these sorts of failures were more common under Bush and he never gave me the impression that he knew what he was doing or how to learn from his mistakes.

    The Republican party used to be stronger on foreign policy, during the Cold War. Back then, sabre rattling and a projection of strength were probably more important. But the world has changed and that type of foreign policy is not only no longer relevant, it's counter-productive. So things have flipped, the Democratic foreign policy strategy (focusing more on diplomacy) is actually superior in the post Cold War era. Republicans still haven't gotten the memo...or maybe they have and just haven't read it yet.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #7
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Yeah, I actually expected better than this from CNN in particular....I mean, I expected them to be at least somewhat dismissive of the accusations (and was in fact counting on it in order to get multiple viewpoints), but not to virtually ignore the issue altogether.

  8. #8
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Here's my view on it. The Obama administration screwed up. But here's where you and I probably differ. No presidency is perfect and I expect the Obama administration to make the necessary changes to make this less likely to happen again in the future.
    I don't disagree with you on that point....I just expect the media to dutifully cover such screw-ups, and to diligently investigate accusations of a political (not criminal) cover-up.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I don't disagree with you on that point....I just expect the media to dutifully cover such screw-ups, and to diligently investigate accusations of a political (not criminal) cover-up.
    I don't think it was a media cover-up. I think it just didn't generate ratings. That's why Fox covered it (Obama haters ate it up: good ratings). Why didn't it generate ratings on other stations? Here's my speculation:

    1. The economy. People are less interested in foreign affairs as a result.
    2. The election.
    3. The general public is war weary.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #10
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Here's my view on it. The Obama administration screwed up. But here's where you and I probably differ. No presidency is perfect and I expect the Obama administration to make the necessary changes to make this less likely to happen again in the future. Now you might say that it's then unfair for me to criticize Bush, but these sorts of failures were more common under Bush and he never gave me the impression that he knew what he was doing or how to learn from his mistakes.

    The Republican party used to be stronger on foreign policy, during the Cold War. Back then, sabre rattling and a projection of strength were probably more important. But the world has changed and that type of foreign policy is not only no longer relevant, it's counter-productive. So things have flipped, the Democratic foreign policy strategy (focusing more on diplomacy) is actually superior in the post Cold War era. Republicans still haven't gotten the memo...or maybe they have and just haven't read it yet.
    Tbh, I actually find this mostly reasonable.

    But have you heard about all the requests for security that were ignored?

    Or how they moved out the embassy's special forces protection team this summer, despite rising levels of attacks?

    I mean, I agree that Bush's foreign policy was an epic failure, and I fucking hate the guy for it, among other things, but how can this event in Benghazi, especially our utter lack of listening to the very real security needs of the embassy, essentially our seeming lack of response to it once it did start (aside from those heroic former Navy SEALS who disobeyed orders), and the subsequent attempt to cover this up by claiming it was a spontaneous demonstration in response to a video, when it clearly was not, and we knew it, not be seen as an epic failure of this new approach (too soft, not worried enough about hard matters [i.e., not allowing your ambassador to be murdered by terrorists])?
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


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