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  1. #1
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    Default NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act)

    What do you guys, girls, space-aliens and creatures of the lagoon, think about this controversial act?

    Will sections like 1010, 1021, 1031 and 1032, take away our rights as citizens?

    Is there a violation of the 5th amendment?

    Are there any potential consequences to this bill?

    Are there any benefits to this bill?

    Some links to information:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...scal_Year_2012

    http://civilliberty.about.com/b/2011...-2012-ndaa.htm

    http://www.redstate.com/badkarma6/2011/12/26/ndaa-2012/

    http://verdict.justia.com/2011/12/21...-act-explained

  2. #2

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    The Bill's text. It's a beast, but they always are it seems.

    NDAA FAQ: A Guide for the Perplexed gratis the Lawfare Blog.

    What exactly does the NDAA do?

    The NDAA is a spending authorization bill for the military for fiscal year 2012. At more than 1,000 pages, it does a great many things. Almost all of the controversy about it, however, deals with a single portion of the bill: “Subtitle D–Counterterrorism.” This subtitle contains a number of provisions related to military detention of terrorism suspects and the interaction between military detention and the operation of the criminal justice system. Broadly speaking, the controversy relates entirely to the following provisions:

    ((Sections 1021-1028 are broken down in detail...))
    The NDAA is really a codification in statute of the existing authority the administration claims. It puts Congress’s stamp of approval behind that claim for the first time, and that’s no small thing. But it does not–notwithstanding the widespread belief to the contrary–expand it. Nobody who is not subject to detention today will become so when the NDAA goes into effect.

    The one area in which the NDAA could theoretically be said to expand detention authority involves people held on the basis not of membership in an enemy group but mere support for one. As noted above, the government has long claimed this authority already, and the DC Circuit has in fact endorsed a slightly broader formulation. But so far, anyway, it has done so in dicta only–that is, not in any case where the fact pattern actually depended on the resolution of that issue. In theory, then, the circuit (or the Supreme Court) might at some point have concluded that support alone is insufficient to support a detention. The NDAA will ensure that this does not happen by making clear that independent support does count as a ground for detention (or at least it will do so as a matter of statutory interpretation; in theory, the door would remain open to some form of constitutional challenge, though it is difficult to see how that would work). So even as it marginally narrows the detainable class, the NDAA also tends to ensure that courts will not narrow the scope of that class further.
    The preexisting authority that is now getting the Congressional stamp of approval being referred to by Lawfare is from September 18th, 2001: the Authorization for Use of Military Force, or AUMF, a direct result of the 9/11 attacks.

    The expansion is a small one, but still uncomfortable to me. I didn't like the indefinite detention allowed before, so to my mind, this is a move in the wrong direction, but not a revolutionary blow to civil liberties as its predecessor was.
    "The views of absolutists and purists everywhere should be noted in fierce detail, then meticulously and thoroughly printed onto my toilet paper ply."

  3. #3
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    It looks like there's a definite direction in mind anyway, the government wants or thinks it needs to have more powers than it has had already, whatever the reason it makes you wonder how we all managed to survive until now without the state exercising this power.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  4. #4
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    It looks like there's a definite direction in mind anyway, the government wants or thinks it needs to have more powers than it has had already, whatever the reason it makes you wonder how we all managed to survive until now without the state exercising this power.
    Given that you are 3000 miles away I wouldn't expect you to understand why WE Americans survive despite OUR government not having even more tyrannical power.
    "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
    Norm MacDonald

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Given that you are 3000 miles away I wouldn't expect you to understand why WE Americans survive despite OUR government not having even more tyrannical power.
    Hope your jingoism pays your bills.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  6. #6
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Hope your jingoism pays your bills.
    Jingoism? LOL. Far from it.
    "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
    Norm MacDonald

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    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Detaining people indefinitely without due process for possibly even supporting a terrorist organization, opening up American citizens to the same thing used against so-called enemy combatants. It's really very dangerous.

    Personally, I think this fits along quite nicely with SOPA and PIPA. The recurring theme here is that the decision to destroy an abstract concept, be it terror or intellectual piracy, validates unlimited power.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Jingoism? LOL. Far from it.
    Well stupidity then, if you'd read and understood my post you'd have been able to tell my point was that expanded remits in government didnt seem necessary on the basis of history but no you jumped in with a knee jerk attack on me as a foreign national, it actually should be embarrassing to you that it has to be spelled out for you like this but you will keep displaying your lack of intellect.

    So I take it you Paulistas will be wrapped in the flag and PMSing from here on in?

    I'll may skip this part of the forum until some kind of intelligent life returns.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  9. #9
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Well stupidity then, if you'd read and understood my post you'd have been able to tell my point was that expanded remits in government didnt seem necessary on the basis of history but no you jumped in with a knee jerk attack on me as a foreign national, it actually should be embarrassing to you that it has to be spelled out for you like this but you will keep displaying your lack of intellect.

    So I take it you Paulistas will be wrapped in the flag and PMSing from here on in
    I'll may skip this part of the forum until some kind of intelligent life returns.
    Yes, their was a miscommunication. You're free to think it happened because I'm stupid. That doesn't bother me. The reality is that my experience with you has led me to presume the worst when there are multiple meanings to what you write.

    What does bother me is that for decades the jingoistic and meddling foreign policy of America has entitled foreigners to speak of American politics as if it were their own country. Now a serious non-interventionist presidential candidate is rising, but you, and others like you, can't stop yourself from spewing as much vitriol as possible in his direction.
    "You know, with Hitler, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don't care for him."
    Norm MacDonald

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yes, their was a miscommunication. You're free to think it happened because I'm stupid. That doesn't bother me. The reality is that my experience with you has led me to presume the worst when there are multiple meanings to what you write.

    What does bother me is that for decades the jingoistic and meddling foreign policy of America has entitled foreigners to speak of American politics as if it were their own country. Now a serious non-interventionist presidential candidate is rising, but you, and others like you, can't stop yourself from spewing as much vitriol as possible in his direction.
    I was going to simply highlight that and leave it at that, since you know it speaks for itself, but I think I'd add that I'm now "spewing vitriol", exciting and all as that particular spin on things could make this brief exchange I merely posted in response to a thread created on an internet discussion forum, I generally see people posting threads on onine discussion forums as open invitations to discussion, including your despised foreigners who shouldnt have an opinion.

    You really think that US foreign policy is responsible for online discussion forums?

    I think you need to get some perspective, supporting conservative capitalists for rich guys privilege doesnt make you part of any rebellious undertone you know.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

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