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  1. #11
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm just gunna say what far too many Westerners are too cowardly to say, which is that, while problems like these might not be specific to Islam, they seem to be far more prevalent to countries and communities in which Islam is the predominant religion.
    The islamic idiotization began 600 years after the christian one: moslems are still in the late middle ages.

  2. #12
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The islamic idiotization began 600 years after the christian one: moslems are still in the late middle ages.
    Funny you say that, cuz, when I wrote what I did, I was wondering whether anyone would offer that response (as it is often a question in my own mind).

    It does seem to be an interesting correlation, no?

    Who will be the Medicis of the Muslims?

    The Sauds?

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

  3. #13
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    I agree that this appears like the authorities went out of their way to get this guy and the authorities in the west dont usually bother when the equivalent happens here, the guy sounds like a troll too though, not exactly the sort of freedom of speech I'd sacrifice all to defend if you know what I mean.

    I'm not sure its religious freedom to claim you're God and rain insults though is it? There's also the western equivalent of this too, I'm not talking house unamerican activities or anything in the recent past like that but Coulter and her Traitors List and stuff like that.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  4. #14
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    He seems to have been a little obsessive about it all. I guess someone thrust islam so hard down his throat he gagged and vomited it all back up again online. There certainly seems to have been a lot of bile.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I agree that this appears like the authorities went out of their way to get this guy and the authorities in the west dont usually bother when the equivalent happens here, the guy sounds like a troll too though, not exactly the sort of freedom of speech I'd sacrifice all to defend if you know what I mean.
    Without the freedom to blaspheme and satirize religion, you don't have religious freedom OR freedom of speech-period. Without religious freedom (or freedom of conscience for the over-sensitive atheists out there), no other freedom is secure. You can't say you support free speech but wouldn't defend the right to unpopular speech, or that you support religious freedom but not the right to blaspheme/satirize a religion. Also, this was on a Facebook page, not a public street-corner; there's no public nuisense/indecency gray areas in the equation.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Funny you say that, cuz, when I wrote what I did, I was wondering whether anyone would offer that response (as it is often a question in my own mind).

    It does seem to be an interesting correlation, no?

    Who will be the Medicis of the Muslims?

    The Sauds?

    Ignoring all the significant differences, particularly that they have (which 'we' lacked) enlightened neighbors, you might not be too far off.

  7. #17
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Without the freedom to blaspheme and satirize religion, you don't have religious freedom OR freedom of speech-period.
    "The free, equal, and undisturbed, enjoyment of religious opinion, whatever it may be, and free and decent discussions on any religious subject, is granted and secured; but to revile, with malicious and blasphemous contempt, the religion professed by almost the whole community, is an abuse of that right....

    ...Though the constitution has discarded religious establishments, it does not forbid judicial cognisance of those offences against religion and morality which have no reference to any such establishment, or to any particular form of government, but are punishable because they strike at the root of moral obligation, and weaken the security of the social ties."
    People v. Ruggles

  8. #18
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    1811
    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

  9. #19
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    1811
    And? The basic premise of this argument goes all the way back to Plato. Freedom of religion and blasphemy are not the same thing.

  10. #20
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    ...moslems are still in the late middle ages.
    No actually they're not. Islamism is as much an aspect of modernity as any secularism, and arose as a response to the failures of secularism in the Islamic world.

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