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  1. #1

    Default Food Security and Globalisation

    Two of the biggest and enduring examples of protectionism or state interference with markets in world affairs are the food policies of the US and EU, in the EU, the example I know the best, the Common Agricultural Policy has resulted in so called "wine lakes" and "Meat Mountains" which developing, agricultural nations have argued has flooded world markets, eschewing prices and making competition or their getting a fair price for their produce impossible.

    The EU has some special trade arrangements with agricultural nations which are former colonies, particularly French, under which they pay higher than market prices or provide subsidy, the US has attacked these measures as anti-market, although it is in some way an attempt on the part of the EU to ameliorate the harm caused by the CAP which they will not abandon.

    Now, the supranational planning agencies like the World Trade Organisation, International Monetary Fund and World Bank who are one of the remaining mainstays of monetarist free market orthodoxy have prevented the developing world and emerging alliances such as the African Union from developing their own Common Agricultural or Food Security programmes while trying to dismantle those which exist in the EU or US.

    There argument is that the global distribution of wealth could be adjusted through he abandonment of food security measures, there would be greater interests in peace if food trade where dependent upon it and that it is one of the only ways of preventing global mass migrations and preventing ecologically destructive industrialisation considered the only means to wealth creation and accumulation to date.

    What is your view? Should something like food security be on the trade agreement table? Or is it a step too far for economics uber politics? If food security became something akin to present energy security, with its foreign resources dependency often mandating military campaigns? Wouldnt it revive the prospects of famines amid plenty like the potato famine in Ireland when grain ships left for the UK amidst a starving country?

    Or are those concerns nebulous in societies where obescity has become a greater problem than starvation?
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    “There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed.”

    -Gandhi-

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    “There is a sufficiency in the world for man's need but not for man's greed.”

    -Gandhi-
    I wonder about this you know, it could be a problem created by ecnomists and business seeking more avenues to expand into but the people who write books are saying that populations, and more importantly, consumer expectations are going to exceed the water table soon.

    That's to say what was once a problem of distribution will because a problem of production and finite resources.
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    This is possible.
    But consider a few facts first.

    Ireland is about 11 billion square yards in size. That means you could give every human a square yard to stand in and fit them all in Ireland and still have room for 4 billion more.

    I am pointing this out not to say we could LIVE in Ireland.. just that the whole race could fit in there. I am trying to show how much of the surface of the Earth we actually cover. Therefore I am under the impression that it is the division of wealth and not the amount, that is the problem.

  5. #5
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Two of the biggest and enduring examples of protectionism or state interference with markets in world affairs are the food policies of the US and EU, in the EU, the example I know the best, the Common Agricultural Policy has resulted in so called "wine lakes" and "Meat Mountains" which developing, agricultural nations have argued has flooded world markets, eschewing prices and making competition or their getting a fair price for their produce impossible.

    The EU has some special trade arrangements with agricultural nations which are former colonies, particularly French, under which they pay higher than market prices or provide subsidy, the US has attacked these measures as anti-market, although it is in some way an attempt on the part of the EU to ameliorate the harm caused by the CAP which they will not abandon.

    Now, the supranational planning agencies like the World Trade Organisation, International Monetary Fund and World Bank who are one of the remaining mainstays of monetarist free market orthodoxy have prevented the developing world and emerging alliances such as the African Union from developing their own Common Agricultural or Food Security programmes while trying to dismantle those which exist in the EU or US.

    There argument is that the global distribution of wealth could be adjusted through he abandonment of food security measures, there would be greater interests in peace if food trade where dependent upon it and that it is one of the only ways of preventing global mass migrations and preventing ecologically destructive industrialisation considered the only means to wealth creation and accumulation to date.

    What is your view? Should something like food security be on the trade agreement table? Or is it a step too far for economics uber politics? If food security became something akin to present energy security, with its foreign resources dependency often mandating military campaigns? Wouldnt it revive the prospects of famines amid plenty like the potato famine in Ireland when grain ships left for the UK amidst a starving country?

    Or are those concerns nebulous in societies where obescity has become a greater problem than starvation?
    To do so would require a realistic look at some of the other issues on food security. This is a lot more complex than it looks at first. There is importation/treatment of food that has been contaminated, GMO content, creates risk factors for existing agriculture, is caught in designated world heritage areas, endangered species, gluts, pest infestation, famine, drought and many more.

    Then you have the issues with the likes of Monsanto. There are many complex factors at play here. You have only to look at HIV/AIDS in Africa and the cost of treating it yet treatment being readily available elsewhere to prolong the lives of those who are HIV positive.

    Unfortunately money talks, and controls, food, weapons, medication, the necessities of life for all of us.

    Was it Ishmael in Daniel Quinn's book who commented that the world changed when man locked up food and made people perform tasks other than those required to grow it before they could eat??
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    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Two of the biggest and enduring examples of protectionism or state interference with markets in world affairs are the food policies of the US and EU, in the EU, the example I know the best, the Common Agricultural Policy has resulted in so called "wine lakes" and "Meat Mountains" which developing, agricultural nations have argued has flooded world markets, eschewing prices and making competition or their getting a fair price for their produce impossible.

    The EU has some special trade arrangements with agricultural nations which are former colonies, particularly French, under which they pay higher than market prices or provide subsidy, the US has attacked these measures as anti-market, although it is in some way an attempt on the part of the EU to ameliorate the harm caused by the CAP which they will not abandon.

    Now, the supranational planning agencies like the World Trade Organisation, International Monetary Fund and World Bank who are one of the remaining mainstays of monetarist free market orthodoxy have prevented the developing world and emerging alliances such as the African Union from developing their own Common Agricultural or Food Security programmes while trying to dismantle those which exist in the EU or US.

    There argument is that the global distribution of wealth could be adjusted through he abandonment of food security measures, there would be greater interests in peace if food trade where dependent upon it and that it is one of the only ways of preventing global mass migrations and preventing ecologically destructive industrialisation considered the only means to wealth creation and accumulation to date.

    What is your view? Should something like food security be on the trade agreement table? Or is it a step too far for economics uber politics? If food security became something akin to present energy security, with its foreign resources dependency often mandating military campaigns? Wouldnt it revive the prospects of famines amid plenty like the potato famine in Ireland when grain ships left for the UK amidst a starving country?

    Or are those concerns nebulous in societies where obescity has become a greater problem than starvation?
    I think it's the responsibility of developing nations to look after their own food security, and their own industrial development and prosperity. I further think that for most given middle-income countries not procuring the food security of their people is criminally iresponsible, given how cheap it is to do so. The Cuban government maintains an 1,100 calorie per day ration for 11 million people, with $3 billion a year.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I think it's the responsibility of developing nations to look after their own food security, and their own industrial development and prosperity. I further think that for most given middle-income countries not procuring the food security of their people is criminally iresponsible, given how cheap it is to do so. The Cuban government maintains an 1,100 calorie per day ration for 11 million people, with $3 billion a year.
    Do you think that this is realistic? Central and South American countries rely on the production of coca, coffee and sugar to provide income to buy in foods that they cannot grow. The populations have expanded past the traditional owners who were the conservators of the forests that Western nations' consumption of timber and minerals have seen laid bare. They can no longer eat and medicate using traditional methods because we have taken that from them.

    In desolate Afghanistan they grow poppies to earn the income to buy the food they cannot grow and we are trying to stop them. Why? because they export opium and heroin? They potentially compete against the lucrative, state sanctioned poppy growers in western countries. Who is the West going to protect?? Certainly not the Afghan poppy growers who receive a pittance for their high value crop.
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    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    Do you think that this is realistic? Central and South American countries rely on the production of coca, coffee and sugar to provide income to buy in foods that they cannot grow.
    This is actually not correct for South America. It is for the Caribbean, because the Caribbean is too densely populated and too hot to be food-sufficient by traditional methods (I propose vertical farming, personally).

    The populations have expanded past the traditional owners who were the conservators of the forests that Western nations' consumption of timber and minerals have seen laid bare. They can no longer eat and medicate using traditional methods because we have taken that from them.
    Singapore and Kuwait can't eat and "medicate" in the traditional method either because they're sorely lacking in fertile land. Anyone starving there?
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    We are human and incapable of wealth distribution it is not in our nature
    in a perfect world we should all want to help one another but we were all created equal
    but not all given the personal resources needed to be equal hence natural selection
    free market is natural selection kill the free market destroy the people
    destroy social pleasures we all turn into livestock

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    This is possible.
    But consider a few facts first.

    Ireland is about 11 billion square yards in size. That means you could give every human a square yard to stand in and fit them all in Ireland and still have room for 4 billion more.

    I am pointing this out not to say we could LIVE in Ireland.. just that the whole race could fit in there. I am trying to show how much of the surface of the Earth we actually cover. Therefore I am under the impression that it is the division of wealth and not the amount, that is the problem.
    I'm not so sure, it is not a matter of mere cubic space, simply because the population of the world could stand on a country does not mean it could feed itself, using all the water that requires and still maintain all the other demands which also use water, that's just one element of things too water, there is soil nutrients, biodiversity in crops, monocultures etc. to be considered too.
    It is a luxury to be understood - Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire

    A kind thought is the hope of the world - Anon

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